Need help finding accuracy with my 1894SS

[TCFAN]

I use 9.5grs of Unique with a Lee 200gr. RFN boolit in my 20 inch Marlin. It clocks 1350 10 feet from the muzzle. Groups at 50 yards run in the one and half inch range for 5 shots with peep sights.

If you want to see how accurate your Marlin is you need a good scope. If that is not a option then a Williams receiver sight and a Lyman 17-A up front at the very least.

My rifle likes .432 or larger boolits.My mold for the Lee 200round flat nose drops at .434X.432 and I size .433 in a H and I lube die. Other molds I beagle................Terry

[longbow]

My Marlin a is a microgoove with the 1:38" twist. Barrel slugs to 0.4315" groove diameter.

I started out many years ago using a Lyman 429421 which never did feed well (to long if seated to crimp groove plus shoulder hangs up on chamber mouth), never shot real well and also leaded some.

Turns out the boolit cast at 0.429"/0.430" so was undersize which explains leading and less than stellar accuracy.

It also turns out that my Marlin had the typical tight spots under sights so I lapped those out.

Now it shoots pretty well with boolits sized from 0.432" to 0.434". No leading, good accuracy.

I am usually loading the H&G #503 SWC at 245 grs or the Mihec 434640 at... well, a little heavier depending on hollow point pin. In any case, both those go over 22grs. IMR4227 with no problems and good results. Both are PB boolits and give me no problem but a safer bet for high velocity loads is to go GC boolits.

I used to load the 429421 over Unique at 10 to 12 grs. which shot reasonably well and didn't lead any more than other loads. I have not used Unique under the #503 or 434640 so can't comment.

There's some good advice in this thread so far and my take is that the boolit hardness seems okay and powder charge not excessive so I would look to boolit fit first. If you can get 0.432" to 0.433" that should fill any typical Marlin groove diameter. Give that a go and see how they do.

As suggested, it certainly wouldn't hurt to drop the powder charge a bit to see how that works as well.

It is not hard to slug the barrel though, then you know what you have and can size accordingly at 0.001" to 0.002" over groove diameter.

Keep trying, you will get it sorted out.!

Longbow

[Thumbcocker]

FWIW my Marlins all like to be shot from the bench with the nonshooting hand between the forearm and teh bag and pulling the butt back into the shoulder firmly. 429244 over 18 of 2400 has been good to me.

[NHlever]

For a full house load, I have gone to 23.0 grains of H-110 behind either the Hornady 240 grain XTP, or the Lyman #429244 sized to .431-.4432 depending on the gun. This load has worked, fed, and shot well from all my .44 mag guns I see no need to push any other boolit that hard though I have been playing a bit with the 429215 boolit to see what it will do. So far the accuracy is a bit behind the heavier boolits in all my guns. Mild loads of Unique, Universal, etc. handle most of my shooting with just about any .44 boolit, and in truth would handle most anything I need, or want to shoot though I have to admit that the 48" -50", or so bull Moose I saw last fall in the woods behind the house at about 50 yards sure looked pretty big. A yearling bull came out, and stood behind him as I was watching, and just made the big guy look bigger. Still, I'll bet that guy would be easier to kill with my go to load than he would be to drag out of the spot I saw him in. The 300 grainers look cool, are fun to cast, and have impressive recoil for such a small case, but I really doubt they kill most things much better than the 240-250 grain bullets/boolits.

[ShrinkMD]

I made up a batch of 44 Specials, (since I have a 629 with the nicest trigger I've ever shot) and I figured I would try them in the Marlin, since I haven't shot it in quite a while, and had sort of given up on it. I was shooting 180gr RNFP bullets over Trail Boss 6.0 gr. I measured this load out of a 4" revolver and they were averaging about 810. I need to measure them out of the rifle.

The good news is, I was staying on paper at 50 and 100 yards. Probably about 4moa at 50, and 8moa or a drop more at 100. Of course, this is bone stock, with the crappy trigger and plain buckhorn sights. I am going to start working a little harder on finding a Trail Boss or Unique load with the 180 or 200 gr RNFP bullets. Slower definitely seems to work better, and avoiding the LSWC style also seems to have helped. I was so happy seeing them all clustering together despite moving the target out to 100 yards!

The inside of the barrel was clean, no leading at all. I was expecting something, but the gun was very clean after 100 rounds of the Trail Boss load.

I'll report back with more info. I also have some materials to slug the barrel, so I will do that as well. Looks like I might be getting some more use out of this gun! I guess I need to start experimenting with the RNFP bullets in my 357 Marlin as well...

[sthwestvictoria]

Did you end up slugging the barrel? This is the best tutorial on slugging I have seen with a great lands/grooves/bore diagram:
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm

I have found with trail boss it can vary quite wildly from the inaccurate load to the accurate one. Unlike other mid-burning rate powders like varget (AR2208) where groups shrink evenly as you approach an accurate load, I found that Trail Boss sprayed at a certain load and only 0.5grain up or down pulled in the group significantly.

If you go lower than 6.0grains I would be checking the barrel or target to ensure every boolit exits!

good write up, glad you came back from 2011!

[ShrinkMD]

I didn't slug yet, it's on my list of things to do.

Another question: I made up some more loads with 6.5gr of Trail Boss, and some 7.5gr of Unique (I have worked these up before for my revolver)

Using the same 180gr bullet, would Unique be ok in the 44 magnum cases? I have some data from Loaddata.com which suggested 11gr as a starting load for the 180gr lead bullet in 44 magnum. Would those likely end up going too fast for the rifle?

[lovedogs]

These Marlins remind me of what an old friend used to tell me..."each gun is a law unto itself." Sometimes things work that aren't supposed to work. And other times what should work, doesn't. My own 1894 Cowboy is one of those. The original barrel was full of rust when bought new. Marlin rebarreled it. The new barrel's interior looks like it was cut with a file, pretty rough looking. But it shoots so well and doesn't lead that I just ignore it's unsightly appearance. It slugs .4315. My Saeco 250 gr. RNFP GC bullet falls out at .430 using a Lyman #2 alloy. I thought it was going to be a disaster, that it would lead and not shoot well at all. I ran it through a Saeco .430 sizer and lubed with Larsen's 50/50. I never tried any fast powders or reduced loads. I've had good luck using 2400 with cast so that's what I started with. It shot mmm...okay, but not what I would call good. Then I tried a load that has worked well in every .44 I've had...a CCI mag primer and 23 gr. H-110. That came out the 24 inch barrel at 1860 FPS and shoots into about 1 1/4 inch 100 yd. groups with an old 3X Weaver scope mounted. It doesn't lead at all and does well out to 250 yds. on silhouettes. I limit deer shooting with this caliber to just over 100 yds. and consider this a good thumper. According to all conventional knowledge it shouldn't shoot well and should lead. I guess the bullet obturates up and seals well. It shoots a lot better than I thought it would.

[ShrinkMD]

I did some more experimenting with loads. Today I shot some Trail Boss 7.6gr 180 gr rnfp loads with both .430 and .431 sized bullets out of 44 Magnum cases. There really wasn't any accuracy difference as far as I can tell. Then I shot some 240 lswc over Unique 10gr in Magnum cases, and those shot as well (0.430 bullet)

The gun is not a tackdriver yet, but I'm defintely starting to get some better accuracy with it, and hopefully at some point I'll have a load worth shooting at 100 yds. I think I will be adding an aperture sight, as I already have other scoped rifles and want to stay more traditional with this one.

[ShrinkMD]

New data. I changed the press over to 44 magnum again, so I made up a new batch of 200 gr rnfp with Unique (0.430, I bought the slugs but haven't slugged the bore yet. Still on my list to get to)
I chronographed 4 loads. Interestingly, the third one with the lower ES and SD also shot noticeably better at 50. It was windy so I gave up at 100, and the scope can't elevate enough to fix the drop (a separate problem I am working on) I guess I need to load up more of that 10.5 gr load, and slug the barrel.

The first 40 rounds I fired chewed a 2-3" hole in the target, but then the wind picked up. I wonder if the barrel getting leaded a bit also started to affect accuracy?

Anyway, here is the data. 11x fired Starline Cases, Federal LP, 200 gr Dardas hard cast 0.430 RNFPBB bullets:
7.5 gr

High:	1093
Low:	999.1
E.S.:	93.9
Ave.:	1052.9
S.D.:	33.4
95%:	26.6

9.0 gr

High:	1303
Low:	1218
E.S.:	85
Ave.:	1265.8
S.D.:	27.7
95%:	22

10.5 gr

High:	1441
Low:	1405
E.S.:	36
Ave.:	1424.1
S.D.:	11.4
95%:	9.1

12 gr

High:	1631
Low:	1559
E.S.:	72
Ave.:	1590.6
S.D.:	20
95%:	15.9

[Scharfschuetze]

If that 10.5 grain load is repeatable for both accuracy and uniformity that looks to be your load with that boolit. Unique can be a little position sensitive, so just before you fire your next series of test, slightly flip the barrel up before each shot to position the powder back to the same place in the case each shot and that may reduce your extreme spread and Sd a bit more. If not shooting down hill, I'll do this in the field too if time and circumstance allow.

I enjoy shooting these leaver action rifles at longer ranges and as you suggest, a good aperture sight will be of help. Consider an adjustable sight like a Lyman Model 66, older Redfield or top of the line Williams. With such a sight you'll be able to shift from various ranges quickly as well as go back to your base zero easily. You already report your groups in MOA dimensions so you'll understand the MOA adjustments on the sight. With the rainbow trajectories of these lever guns, it's fun to estimate the range, slip the sight the number of MOA needed and then knock a small rock off of a hillside. You can also record your zeros for various ranges and then return to those setting and expect first round hits when returning to the target at that distance.

With a square topped blade or post front sight and rear aperture sight, you'll be able to get the most from your Marlin carbine.

[genesis]

Rather then shooting at 100 yards, start out at 25. If will be easier sighting with those buckhorn sights. If the gun, or the ammo, or you, can't get a pretty decent group at 25 yards, it'll never happen at 100 yards. Once you get a decent group at 25, move out to 50. And be sure to use a "really big" circle for your aiming point. A pie plate works good at 25 and 50 yards. But at 100 yards I use an 18 inch circle. To small a circle makes it to difficult to get a consistently good/proper sight picture. I love my 1894SS Marlin in 44 mag. I to like peep sights, but got use to the buckhorns. I generally get 3 to 5" groups at 100 yards with my cast boolit loads (very mild to medium velocity - nothing "hot").