The brown fumes are nitrous oxides. Various preservatives such as diphenylamine are added to powder as "getters" for this, eventually all the preservative is used up and then the degradation starts to go pretty fast-
The brown fumes are nitrous oxides. Various preservatives such as diphenylamine are added to powder as "getters" for this, eventually all the preservative is used up and then the degradation starts to go pretty fast-
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
Ihad a few cans of H322 pulled powder do the same, It was in a wooden scotch box and couldnt figure out were the smell was coming from a awhile. When I tiook the lids off smoke came out of the cans, Joe
Does that picture bring back memories.
Several years ago a major dealer was selling SURPLUS KOREAN 30-06 (KA72) ammo.
Minimum order 400 rounds but the price seemed good. Took the ammo and a BRAND NEW Weatherby to the range. With the first shot my son (he was shooting at the next bench) said "Dad I just got stabbed with a piece of brass." Took the ammo and gun to the range masters office. Dusty said "throw all of that ---- in the garbage if you value your life". There had been 2 other cases so far in that week alone with KA 72 ammo being bad.
When we got home I broke a round apart. From the base of the bullet down for over 1/2" there was a very solid GREEN plug of ????.
I can only guess what would have happened if it had been a weaker action.
IF IN DOUBT THROW IT OUT PLEASE.
WE WON. WE BEAT THE MACHINE. WE HAVE CCW NOW.
This thread made me check my supply of H-4831 which is down below 20 lbs. I bought it from the widow of a shooter and it had been in her unheated garage for 25 years. I have kept it in my reloading room which is air conditioned to a max of 80*. It is in the cardboard "tub with a lid and that is in an metal old lard can with with a friction top. Still looks and smell great. The original amount was 50 lbs. and weighed 27 lbs. when I bought it 5 years ago.
I have several old canisters of powder that date back into the '60's, all are are clean and useable. I have however had a dozen separate bottles of GI H322 go sour afetr about 5 years in two separate locations. Black bottles with the tops corroding rapidly are the give aways. For those who care the brown fumes are predominately nitric oxide, the off gassing portion of fuming nitric acid, this stuff combines with water to form plain old nitric acid. Inhalation of this stuff is definitely bad for living things,. So be careful about nose checking. If its brown fumes, you realy dont need to smell it. There is no free sulphuric acid in gunpowder at this time.It is used as a "drier" during synthesis of nitrocellulose or nitroglycerine.
I had that happen to two 8lb. jugs of Mil-Surp IMR 4895 after a few years in an A/C environment. The acid fumes were breathtaking to say the least. I made the mistake of pouring it in the yard like I usually do with unidentified or otherwise unwanted powder. This stuff killed all the grass and weeds graveyard dead. Took several months for the ground to hair over again.
There is some ammo and more ammo. There is never enough ammo!
i just opened a lb of imr 4350 made in 08, had yellow dust in it,called imr and they want it back,they will send me a new lb and pay for all shipping.then i checked the rest of my powders ,2 cans imr 4895 about 12 lbs same thing bought in 94. every thing else is ok.it has all been in a controled enviroment , i hate to but i guess ill pour it out.
I have not had powder go bad on me YET! Even the powder I saved from some 40's 7.92 Turk ammo I pulled down when I was 15yr old is still good. Will powder keep longer if it is stored in a cold environment such as a freezer, Or is it best to keep it at room temp?
THE GUNThe gun has been praised.
The gun has been denounced.
The gun has played a critical role in History.
The gun has been implemented for good.
The gun has been abused for evil.
With the gun comes a great moral responsibility!
To better understand the gun is to better under stand History. And with the gun protect your future.
D.B
That's some really rough looking stuff! I have some old powder, Alcan #5, #7 and various Hercules powders. None of them that are open seem to have anything wrong with them other than the 3 pounds of Alcan #7 has no smell whatsoever. The oldest Winchester powder I have is WSL and I'm using up the first can up since it was rusty on the outside. Reckon I must be pretty lucky!
Anyone have any idea how long you can store 2400 powder? I have not yet started reloading for my 410 but was wondering if I should buy in bulk for the long haul or stick to smaller containers of powder. If it will store well bulk would give me more price control but if there is a chance of it going bad bulk could end up costing me in the long run.
Not sure you have enough years left in you to worry about that.
Some of mine is 40 years YOUNG and still sends PB to the berm every time the hammer falls.
WE WON. WE BEAT THE MACHINE. WE HAVE CCW NOW.
Good to know it will last for a good while I think I'll go ahead and buy in bulk. Thasnks
Just because powder has nito in the name of its makeup does not make it subject to the same dangers ad Nitro as use in blasting / dynomite.
Here us a thought , powders now have a shelf life limiter added to them so that we can not store them for 50 yeras or more.
NRA Patron Member
Vet . 2nd of the 47th 9th.Inf. Viet Nam Mar. 67-68
I bought a 1lb can of Varget that I didn't open for a few years and found the seal broken when I did. I poured some out and it had yellow/brown color but I loaded some any how. BIG MISTAKE! It was my one learn the hardway experience. Don't do it throw it away and chalk it up to a bad day!
IMR 4198 (Dupont) 1 lb can, just opened last week. Has the brown/redish dust. Smells ok. Looking into the can, shows small spots of rust. Outside, pouring from one container to another to let the wind blow dust away. This is can #9 of 10, but a new lot number. Other 8 cans, no problem. Did notice this rusty lot, by volume, was almost 1 gr lighter at the same measure setting. Loading my standard 21 gr charge, placed the groups a little higher on target. Bolt took a little more effort to open. Groups were normal.
All interesting stuff.
I've got metal cans of Win. 231, Win. 296 and IMR 4198 that are 35+ years old. All powders have been stored in a south Louisiana attic for about the last 20 years during which I'd gotten out of reloading. Having now resumed reloading, I reached for the old powders and the old primers which are also about 35+ years old.
Despite their age, all of the powders look, smell and feel like brand new. Primers look new, also.
All of that notwithstanding, the final test is the performance. All powders and primers perform like new. In short, they go bang real good.
I only wish new containers of powders and primers would have price tags with numbers like those on the old ones!
Bayou52
NRA Life Member
"Keep Calm and Reload"
During the Vietnam War our ship got a load of made in the 1930's 5"-38 shells that had a tendency to blow up as they left the barrel of our guns. I had to duck a few times while standing bridge watch. One shell darn near took out our supply officer when some of the shrapnel poked a hole in the ship and gave him a deep cut on his nose. Just inches from going home in a body bag! The remaining shells were given to Davy Jones.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |