Use of Mercury instead of tin in bullet casting?

[I'll Make Mine]

The other mercury bullet thread...

(Tha's a link, son -- don't know why my browser isn't highlighting it this morning, but it does change color if I mouse over it)

The usual way of alloying metals with wildly different melting points is to melt the lower melting metal first, then dissolve the higher melting into the pot. With mercury already molten at room temperature, you'd most likely add the lead to the mercury in a cold pot, then heat just until the alloy is melted before casting your boolits. The alloy almost certainly melts at a lower temperature than lead (which, as noted above, melts at or just below the boiling point of mercury), and starting with amalgam would let you get the melt going and make up your alloy without boiling off the mercury.

That said, I have to agree with opinions above, that making boolits with mercury is generally a bad idea, when a slightly larger amount of (much cheaper and vastly less hazardous) tin, or even smaller amounts of tin and antimony together, will do just as good a job of hardening boolits. Personally, I'll stick to wheel weights...

[Moonman]

Ever hear the saying "MAD AS A HATTER?"

Hatteries used to clean hats with MERCURY.

The END RESULT was they ending up going MAD as in CRAZY.

[quack1]

[QUOTE=Firebricker;1929694]I think something I was reading a while back mentioned using mercury in boolits used on African safari but can't remember what it was. I've heard of cleaning lead out of barrels with it so would it remove copper fouling too ? I know it's irrelevant since you can't legally own it but curious. FB[/QUOT

The book might be by Wild Beasts and Their Ways by Samuel Baker. Pretty sure he mentioned using mercury in bullets while on safari in Africa.
If mercury is illegal there are a lot of lawbreakers that still have mercury thermometers, let alone old guys that used it to remove lead from barrels and still have it.

[Down South]

I'm in my 60s and mercury is not good for you, but I guarantee that about 2 of 3 people
my age have played with mercury more than once in their lives without apparent harm. The
danger is pretty over-rated. Anyone that had fillings prior to about 30 yrs ago had/still has
silver-mercury amalgam as the fillings in your mouth for the rest of your life.

Never heard of mixing it with lead, but if you rubbed it onto a silver coin (how many know that
our coins used to be real silver!?) it would mix on the surface quickly and make it super
shiny - a liquid surface, and super slippery, too. After a few hours the mercury would dissolve
into the coin leaving it a flat, clean silver color.

Bill

I did the coin trick many a time when I was a kid.

[Shiloh]

Mercuric fumes are a deadly poison. Mercury in any form is poisonous and to be avoided.

Shiloh

[quilbilly]

Mercuric fumes are a deadly poison. Mercury in any form is poisonous and to be avoided.

Shiloh

I agree but the level of mercury that is toxic has never been established. Mercury is now the way the ecofascists may use to stampede the scientifically illiterate government educated masses into attacks on capitalism. Here in Puget Sound, it is used regularly by the greenies to get government grants to do useless cleanups or put capitalists out of business. What you never hear is that mercury is naturally occurring in volcanic soils and people have been living with it for thousands of years. You also never hear that the mineral cinnabar (mercuric sulfide if memory serves) is common around our local river drainages so greenies can stop any industry.
In any case, avoid any contact and use as few of those mercury lights as possible but don't to be part of the stampede either.

[Bent Ramrod]

Unless you are allergic to the metal, mercury isn't particularly toxic per se. Where it gets toxic is when it is oxidized, dissolved in acidic media or metabolized by certain bacteria into organomercury compounds. It is the mercuric or mercurous ion that is toxic, especially to the nerves, which is why those affected become paralyzed or non compos mentis. I recall reading the old guys used to dump an ounce of mercury into 20 lbs of lead to harden it. Antimony would probably harden it just as well without the worries of spills and the expense.

They used to give solutions of calomel (mercurous chloride) to kids as medicine. The only reason they didn't die was the mercurous chloride is so low in solubility that there was hardly any of the ion there.

[303Guy]

Unless you are allergic to the metal, mercury isn't particularly toxic per se.

A little known fact is that one can only be allergic to a protein - it's the bodies unsolicited antibody reaction to a protein. Mercury sensitivity, yes.

Getting back to the original question (which was not on mercury toxicity but what it does to lead) - I always thought mercury softened lead! I thought filling a hollow nose boolit with mercury softened the nose by the mercury dissolving into the lead. Well, I thought wrong I guess. Can anyone explain how mercury hardens lead? What exactly is an amalgam? Mercury-Silver amalgam is pretty hard and strong (I have plenty in my mouth - it's not soluble and is dangerous to get removed because it can release mercury into the system if not done correctly. Same with with putting it in!)

I would suspect mercury was more readily available back in the day when it's toxicity was unknown and/or not cared about. I sure has hell would not like to meat shot with a mercury containing boolit!

I too played with mercury as a kid. Did it do me any harm? Might have but probably didn't. I was born with aspergers as were my whole family. So was Einstein but I'm no Einstein.

Reagan said; "It's not that liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that ain't so". I liked Reagan, maybe it was his actor charm.

[I'll Make Mine]

Mercury in a hollow point bullet works by ensuring there's a pressure build-up on impact to expand the bullet, regardless what you hit; for instance, you don't have the HP blocking up with cotton fibers from a denim jacket, and then failing to expand in the flesh behind, with a mercury tip, because the tip will expand on contact with the denim. Of course, you will most likely be sued into bankruptcy for employing a homemade mercury tip bullet and exposing your assailant to that hazardous substance when you fire in self defense...

Amalgam is the generic term for any mercury alloy; mercury will alloy at room temperature with virtually any metal other than platinum. In some cases, it does so aggressively enough to be a problem; don't ever try to store mercury in an aluminum container, as the liquid metal will eat the aluminum like saturated brine destroying an ice block (and it doesn't take much to do it, either). Mercury hardens lead the same way most other alloying agents do: by distorting the face centered cubic crystal lattice, making it harder to push lattice elements over one another due to the "pinning" action of the different sized atoms scattered at random through the material. If you could alloy lead with another element having identical atomic radius and a face centered cubic crystal habit, you'd most likely find that it would have virtually no hardening effect (don't know that there is such an element; in fact, I'm fairly sure there isn't). Common alloying metals, however, like tin, arsenic, antimony, etc. have different atomic radii and in some cases, different crystal habits as well -- so they distort the lattice and prevent the different lattice planes (of which BCC has more than any other) from slipping, so requiring more energy to deform the alloy than with pure lead (this is what we call "hardening").

[303Guy]

Thanks. But surely it wouldn't be possible to maintain that mercury tip boolit? Or does it form an alloy of mercury as opposed to an alloy of lead? And would it be stable over time? (Obviously I'm not prepared to experiment which I would otherwise be tempted to).

[ph4570]

[QUOTE=quack1;1929966]

I think something I was reading a while back mentioned using mercury in boolits used on African safari but can't remember what it was. I've heard of cleaning lead out of barrels with it so would it remove copper fouling too ? I know it's irrelevant since you can't legally own it but curious. FB[/QUOT

The book might be by Wild Beasts and Their Ways by Samuel Baker. Pretty sure he mentioned using mercury in bullets while on safari in Africa.
If mercury is illegal there are a lot of lawbreakers that still have mercury thermometers, let alone old guys that used it to remove lead from barrels and still have it.

Yes, I snagged a free copy of said book this day from Amazon for the Kindle. There is a passage that speaks of using quicksilver in a 1:13 ratio. The implication was that it is equivalent to a 1:10 tin ratio for boolit hardness. It is a good read so far. I recommend it.

[oneokie]

Thanks. But surely it wouldn't be possible to maintain that mercury tip boolit? Or does it form an alloy of mercury as opposed to an alloy of lead? And would it be stable over time? (Obviously I'm not prepared to experiment which I would otherwise be tempted to).

No, you would not be able to maintain a mercury filled hollow point boolit for a very long period of time, as the mercury will start dissolving the lead upon contact. And you would have to seal the mercury in the cavity with wax.

[doctorggg]

I don't think the OP had any intention of using it. He was just inquiring about info he read. I am not advocating this but I played with mercury everytime a thermometer was broken. I attended dental school from 1977-1981. Back then we actually had liquid mercury that we added to silver pellets. This was placed in a capsule then amalgamated. We then used a squeeze cloth (piece of gauze) to squeeze out the excess mercury from the amalgam. All this without gloves. We also had asbestos strips to cut and place in a crucible before casting a gold crown. I do not test positive for heavy metal contamination. But maybe that is the reason I have CRS (can't remember stuff). However if I had known what we know today I would never have done any of this.

[I'll Make Mine]

Thanks. But surely it wouldn't be possible to maintain that mercury tip boolit? Or does it form an alloy of mercury as opposed to an alloy of lead? And would it be stable over time? (Obviously I'm not prepared to experiment which I would otherwise be tempted to).

The method I recall reading about making mercury tip bullets had one seating a suitable size of gas check, cup up, into the hollow point on top of the mercury. I don't know how much lead can dissolve into mercury -- let me check and see if Google can tell me...

Well, this reference says a lead amalgam will remain liquid at up to 33% lead -- that'll be by weight, and mercury is denser than lead by around 15%, so if you have a light bullet with a large hollow cavity, you could wind up with the entire jacket filled with liquid lead amalgam. More likely, the mercury would slowly (at room temperature) dissolve the lead until the percentage got high enough for the amalgam to solidify. How long that would take, Google doesn't want to reveal at this time...

[JIMinPHX]

Chem class was many years ago, but I seem to remember reading that mercury should not be stored in brass or aluminum because it would have an adverse reaction. That alone would make me think that it might be a bad idea to load a mercury alloy boolit into a brass case.

[Firebricker]

ph4570,Thanks for the reference it's getting close to "sit and read a book weather" so I'll find a copy. Not so much for the mention of mercury as always enjoy a good hunting book. FB

[Jeffrey]

Re: mercury legality and availability. Mercury is present in EVERY florescent tube, even compacts. Up until relatively recently mercury switches were used in thermostats. I've been told mercury switches can no longer imported into Louisiana. I do know mercury switch thermostats are unavailable in LA.

[mehavey]

It is (near) impossible to become "mercury poisoned" through incidental/child-experienced liquid mercury handling. Nor is is easy (or even probable) to become poisoned by ingesting liquid mercury in any ordinarily conceivable circumstance. The screaming and yelling of "mercury panic" is just that -- deliberately over-induced mass hysteria by the media. (Think on how well they report the technical aspects of any gun-related stories and you get the picture.)

HOWEVER.....

inhalation of mercury fumes (through heating/constant exposure to high concentrations in closed environments (aka mad-hatter syndrome) produces neurological damage; and ingestion of mercury in any of its various salts or organic forms is absolutely DEADLY.

[Jim]

I Googled "Is mercury poisonous to touch" and only got a little over a million responses. Not much there to back it up, huh?

[mehavey]

None. The reality is pretty much here:

Quicksilver (liquid metallic mercury) is poorly absorbed by ingestion and skin contact. It is hazardous due to its potential to release mercury vapor. Animal data indicate less than 0.01% of ingested mercury is absorbed through the intact gastrointestinal tract, though it may not be true for individuals suffering from ileus. Cases of systemic toxicity from accidental swallowing are rare, and attempted suicide via intravenous injection does not appear to result in systemic toxicity.[18] Though not studied quantitatively, the physical properties of liquid elemental mercury limit its absorption through intact skin and in light of its very low absorption rate from the gastrointestinal tract, skin absorption would not be high.[19] Some mercury vapor is absorbed dermally, but uptake by this route is only about 1% of that by inhalation.[20]

Ref 19 ("TOXICOLOGICAL PROFILE FOR MERCURY") is interesting reading even if it effectively says not to "...sling it all around to where it gets absorbed into walls/clothing/materials where you'll spend a lot of enclosed time" since it will slowly sublimate (Mad Hatter time again). Note also it says "Even when a larger amount of metal mercury (a half of a tablespoon, about 204 grams) was swallowed by one person, very little entered the body."

Mercury salts/compounds, and organic mercury will kill you -- dead -- and make you real unhappy along the way. But you gotta work real hard/be real stupid for normal amounts of mercury metal to do the same. (Otherwise, half the curious/playful children born in the first half of the 20th century would be dead.)

Common sense applies big time here. **

18. http://dx.doi.org/10.1080%2F10408440600845619
19. http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp46.pdf
20. http://dx.doi.org/10.1080%2F00039896.1989.9934385





** post script: Do I need to emphasize the need NOT (in any way) to heat metallic mercury?