.357 for deer?

[roverboy]

I have been shooting the .357 for more than fifty years.
When I started shooting hand guns 45 autos were fifteen or twenty dollars and often you got a bunch of ammo with it for that money.

I bought my first Ruger flattop 4 & 5/8ths .357 in 1957.
The very best info on the .357 in a rifle is Paco Kelleys. Parallels what I did with mine.

Link here. http://www.leverguns.com/articles/pa...literature.htm

Pretty much all you ever have to know.


Life is good

Thanks for posting that. It was a good read.

[Biggfoot44]

Humm . I have frequently carried .357s with intent w/ deer on my mind, but they haven't cooperated. Have used both revolver and rifle on boar. With revolver. It eventually worked , but had penetration issues on shoulder grissle, and took more rounds than I prefered , with minimal reaction from boar. From early Rossi M92 penetrated from the head to nearly exiting the back end. My #2 shooting/ hunting partner has taken a buncha deer with .357 . Alas not much input on bullet performance since most were head shots ( not advocating , just reporting ). For that matter another friend reported succuess with .38spl +P 158 LHP to heart. I have had great results on injured deer and livestock with 9mm+P+ 115jhp.

But just to be devil's advocate : as long as looking a new ( at least new to you ) firearm , don't overlook a .44 carbine. They can be loaded very gently , and still be fine for deer. While I would use hotter for hunting on purpose , I have used SASS type .44spl loads in Marlin M94 on injured deer.

[Lonegun1894]

I'm very surprized that you had trouble punching through the gristle plate with a .357 mag revolver. I have taken several hogs by shooting them with a .22 LR revolver in the lungs either through the plate or just behind the shoulder, getting to the heart and lungs on every instance. The last one, and this wasn't the first time, was a clean pass-through that entered just behind the elbow, punched through both lungs and the top of the heart, and exited the other side of this 175-200LB male. The shot was at about 40yds, and the hog walked 15 feet, then stumbled and went down. The guy with me informed me that these stunts will get me killed eventually, but I haven't had it fail yet. I'm not advocating doing this, and do prefer a .357 or bigger for hogs, but don't pass up that much pork just because I have a .22 in my hands instead of a bigger gun. As we all always say, its putting the bullet in the right place that does the job. I wouldn't do this with a deer because it isn't worth my license, gun, truck, house, etc, but we dont have caliber restrictions on hogs here as they are seen as a varmint that does a lot of property damage.

[Lawyerman]

My kids (2) both used a Marlin 94 .357 as a deer rifle for their first 4 years of hunting. Quite honestly, no rifle has put more meat on my table- NONE. They killed hogs by the truck load with that rifle and no less than 6 good sized mule deer bucks. We have never lost an animal- and never recovered a bullet either.


My "load" was the Federal Castcore 180- I believe this was essentially one of Verals designs put up by Federal- in any event it kills game stone cold dead. The little rifle doesn't kick and it's accurate enough and powerful enough for 100 yard shooting as far as I'm concerned.

[JSH]

I bought my ballard rifled Marlin for the son. He shoots it fine but I use it more than he does. The very first group buy I was in here was for a 180 FN GC. It has been outstanding in allt the 35's I have tried it in. It is the bullet I use when I decided to use it to deer hunt with. I did think it may have an issue peroforming man was I wrong. I had killed two large deer with it at under 100 yards. I decided I would sure like to be able to recover one of the bullets. I intentially shot a young buck a couple of years ago at around 150 yards. Held into the front shoulder and had complete penetration at that range..........
My load is a farirly stiff dose of lil gun. It will shoot into 1 1/2" at 100 on demand.
IMHO since I have gotten into casting the 35's are a lot more forgiving than any other caliber I have fooled with6.5's through 45's of various cases and dimensions.
jeff

[FredMcIntire]

So am I. One of my hunting buddies uses them in his Colt Python and has taken many deer with it. I cast and load them for him, and the boolit with lube weighs in at 173 gr. It is a great deer getter with my H110 loads.

Are you gas checking these "Keith" bullets ? If not, do you have any trouble with the H110 being too hot of a powder for them ?

Would you care to PM me your load data ?

Thanks !

Fred

[Biggfoot44]

Yes ,I was suprised at the lack of penetration also. It was R-P factory 158 SWCs fired in a DW 6in . While the DW is accurate , it does shoot *slow* . My vels with it overlapped with a 4in S&W that was *fast* .

Looking back ( this was in '84 ) since then , I could probably work up a Keith or LBT load in a Blackhawk that would penetrate as expected. But at the time hadn't yet aquired a .357 B'hawk , and my other option in hunting handguns were .44s .

For several years now , I've been telling myself I'm overdue for more boars. At this point I'll probably tailor my armament selection to be similar to whom I would be taking with me.

[JSH]

The Keith bullet is a bit long for a lot of lever guns, in a 357 case. The front driving band being square edged causes me grief with the 35 and 44 marlins. They will feed but ya have to jiggle them around at times. Not what I want to do when there venison to be made. But, know tht I think of it they all gave up after the first shot anyway.................
jeff

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Look here to see what a 357 did to an elk.
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/...t=48098&page=7

[roverboy]

Was the elk shot with a rifle or handgun? Either way impressive.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I believe he goes on to say it was from a rifle.

[Raygun]

Back when I taught a few NRA shooting classes, we would take normal shooters rest sandbag and shoot it with a 357 revolver (most any factory jacketed 357 bullet we had on hand) and it would not penetrate all way through. We would shoot the same bag with razor tip arrow and it always penetrated all way through. I still live the 357 and think it adiquate for deer. Do the test for yourself don't take my word. I belirve a carbine or longer barrel revolver would have had different results. Or perhaps athe right handload.

[roverboy]

Most jhp bullets will expand fast in something hard like sand or dirt. I'd say a lot of center fire rifle calibers loaded with soft points would probably stop inside a sandbag too. I know you can't believe much on tv but, I saw a show once where they shot a .460 Weatherby Mag. with 500 gr. soft points into a bucket full of sand and it stopped inside.

[another gunslinger]

good thing deer are not made of sand, nothing would penetrate them.

Indians killed deer (and larger) with bows, using "crudely" made, mostly inconsistant stone points, from a bow that was often less than 30 pounds of draw weight. If I showed up at a archery range with that setup, intent on practicing for killing deer, they would laugh me out of there. I met a dude that took a deer this year with an atlatl. I think that's crazy, but he practiced, waited for the right oportunity and took it.

As for your .357, any cast bullet in the 170-180 grain range, that shoots well in your gun, preferrably with a wide meplate, sitting on top of an appropriate charge of 2400 (about 14 grains, if memory serves) is good for over 1000 fps in a little 4" barrel, and plenty good to put a deer down reliably and humanely.

My understanding is that the most popular caliber for spotlighters is the plain ol' .22 rimfire, and they kill far too many deer every year. We're talking about shooting a boolit over three times heavier, a couple hundred FPS faster.

Key is practice and shot placement. No different than guys killing deer at 60 yards with a bow. Can it be done? Sure, but I'm not good enough. I'll stick to 25. I won't be using an atlatl or a 30# bow either, but I would be confident taking my k-frame .357 and using it at any range I have practiced at and can consistantly print minute-of-deer groups.

but heck, I would take a .45 ACP with the right load, right range and right opportunity.

[roverboy]

good thing deer are not made of sand, nothing would penetrate them.

Indians killed deer (and larger) with bows, using "crudely" made, mostly inconsistant stone points, from a bow that was often less than 30 pounds of draw weight. If I showed up at a archery range with that setup, intent on practicing for killing deer, they would laugh me out of there. I met a dude that took a deer this year with an atlatl. I think that's crazy, but he practiced, waited for the right oportunity and took it.

As for your .357, any cast bullet in the 170-180 grain range, that shoots well in your gun, preferrably with a wide meplate, sitting on top of an appropriate charge of 2400 (about 14 grains, if memory serves) is good for over 1000 fps in a little 4" barrel, and plenty good to put a deer down reliably and humanely.

My understanding is that the most popular caliber for spotlighters is the plain ol' .22 rimfire, and they kill far too many deer every year. We're talking about shooting a boolit over three times heavier, a couple hundred FPS faster.

Key is practice and shot placement. No different than guys killing deer at 60 yards with a bow. Can it be done? Sure, but I'm not good enough. I'll stick to 25. I won't be using an atlatl or a 30# bow either, but I would be confident taking my k-frame .357 and using it at any range I have practiced at and can consistantly print minute-of-deer groups.

but heck, I would take a .45 ACP with the right load, right range and right opportunity.

Yeah, the sand is pretty mean. But a good boolit in a good .357 load will do a deer in. I've wondered about a good load in a .45 ACP. I've heard about guys loading wide flat nosed boolits in a ACP and it worked great. Should work good.

[another gunslinger]

I think the 45 ACP is enough gun if practiced with and used responsibly.

my plan is to use the 10mm this year, but carrying it as a sidearm and use only if the opportunity is available. I really want to harvest a deer with my Glock, but at 40-250 yards, the .308 will get the nod.

Good luck with your 357, post some pics of the deer you harvest with it!

[Raygun]

My son killed an 8 point buck with his 45 acp 1911 with one shot . It was a throung in through and the deer droped on spot. He was only about 19 at the time but a responsable hunter and the buck provided the peferect broad side shot at about 30 yards or so.

[roverboy]

Raygun, the .45 acp and the right load don't surprise me at all.

[bowfishn]

Hi, I am using the MiHec C358-180-RF/GC with Cramer HP Pins it use weighs 179.5gr using the medium HP. I started with 13grs of h110,with small pistol mag primers in starline Brass, working my way up to 16.5 grains of h110 again with small pistol mag primers, I got the best accuracy with 16.5 gr. 5/8" group at 25 yards all six shots out of a GP100 6" stainless. No sign of over pressure, brass falls out of cylinder without using ejector rod. I will carry the 6" with me when I head out in a couple weeks for opening of deer season here in Vermont. My main deer gun will be a SRH 44mag 9.5" scoped handgun carried across my chest. I just may use the 357 with the load mentioned if the opportunity presents it self for a 50 yard or less shot. I never gave the 357 much of a chance in my younger days but I am getting quite found of the 2 GP100s I have, a 4" and a 6" both with Williams firesights.

[roverboy]

Sounds like a good load and should work great. Hope you get a good'un soon.