My last gunshow

[PS Paul]

Tazman, your story about the "range nazi" sure rings true. Everybody like that wants to be a cop, you know? And the guy who lectured you? Another classic character: the one who wants to "mind your business". Exactly the reason I just keep to myself over at the far corner of the range while shooting away. Once in a while someone will come over and tell me why I cannot shoot lead in my pistols or rifles because of leading in the barrel and sometimes they want to come over and tell me how it's done because I am not decked out in "lamo-camo'tactical buffoonery" as they are. I often wear a button-down and slacks and for some reason, it attracts those who want to "mind my business", like the guy who asked to take a look at my .45 Colt flattop. He asked to see it, so apparently laying it down for him to see, as he requested, was also a no-no (although I have NEVER seen THAT posted ANYWHERE at ANY range) and he made sure to tell me how I should hold it while showing it. I picked it back up, turned around and immediately let loose on target with some boomer loads without giving him opportunity to complete his sentence. He got the message and he has not spoken one word to me since. And that's the way I like it.

[Ola]

In our club just being a member doesn't mean much: the range is open only couple of hours every weekend and also members have to pay EVERY time they use the range. Compared to non-members the range fee is smaller and that is it.

BUT, active members (those who do ALL the work) use the range any time they want and everything is free. Basically only active members are true members of the club. They also make the rules and often so that the rules benefit the actives.

With this system the "consumers" finance everything the club needs. And there is always people who WANT to get the "Active member" status. So they are participating every activity there is to convince the "actives" that they are worthy. For me it took a year to get in..

Maybe this kind of a arrangement would help you? I can guarantee you have enough volunteers anytime you need them..

[Jammer Six]

A "good ol' boy" system is the worst possible answer, for many reasons.

[Tazman1602]

Tazman, your story about the "range nazi" sure rings true. Everybody like that wants to be a cop, you know? And the guy who lectured you? Another classic character: the one who wants to "mind your business". Exactly the reason I just keep to myself over at the far corner of the range while shooting away. Once in a while someone will come over and tell me why I cannot shoot lead in my pistols or rifles because of leading in the barrel and sometimes they want to come over and tell me how it's done because I am not decked out in "lamo-camo'tactical buffoonery" as they are. I often wear a button-down and slacks and for some reason, it attracts those who want to "mind my business", like the guy who asked to take a look at my .45 Colt flattop. He asked to see it, so apparently laying it down for him to see, as he requested, was also a no-no (although I have NEVER seen THAT posted ANYWHERE at ANY range) and he made sure to tell me how I should hold it while showing it. I picked it back up, turned around and immediately let loose on target with some boomer loads without giving him opportunity to complete his sentence. He got the message and he has not spoken one word to me since. And that's the way I like it.

Yup, that's what I'm talking about Paul. I have a machine shop albeit small and I have offered many, many times to build backstops, target stands, etc. The answer I always get is "so and so is the one who handles that, you'll need to get *permission* from him.blah, blah, blah" Sorry, not on my time with my tools.

I've offered to stay overnight at the local gun show to watch over the tables numerous times and have been turned down. I finally figured out there are a bunch of "good ole boys" who do this and that way they get the pick of the show. That one took me a while to figure out as I am not that way.

The one that really, really got to me though was when the little fat guy with all the "NRA Certified Instructor" patches on his fancy dancy little shirt gave my wife and I the lecture on bullet casting. He asked who made all my bullets (they are sized to the barrel and extremely accurate) and when I told him I was the one who cast them he got all excited. He asked where I cast them and I told him pretty much in my basement in the winter. He then almost jumped up and down and said "NO NO NO!" YOU CAN'T DO THAT! THE LEAD FUMES COULD KILL YOU!"

I then gently explained to him that at the temperature lead actually gives off fumes, IF that ever happened I would probably be outside the house. He just looked at me funny and asked what I meant. I told him that lead doesn't let off fumes until it gets to such a temperature that IF, in the unlikelyhood it would fume, it would mean my house was on fire and I wouldn't be in it. Then he looked at me really funny and I jumped on the opportunity.

I asked him how many bullets he had cast in his lifetime and what he knew about the properties of lead, tin, and antimony. He said he didn't cast because of the dangers of lead and that lead bullets would lead the bore........................my reply?

"it figures".............right before I walked away. My Ruger Vaquero .357 has never seen a jacketed bullet and I have never had to clean the lead out of the barrel because it doesn't exist.

To the OP I am sorry your club has done this to you, I wouldn't even THINK of bailing on ANYONE to let them clean up the mess. I wouldn't waste my breath. Just stop doing for them and let them do for themselves.

As a matter of fact, the ONLY source of fellowship and goodwill I have EVER experienced from a *group* atmosphere has been right here on this forum. If I have needed something, a member ALWAYS steps up, gets me what I need, and never accepts payment for it. I try to reciprocate that by giving away extra stuff I have to members who need it.

How about the guy who goes to the bench, shoots one shot, and is cranking on his scope? Ya' can't explain something to someone who doesn't want to learn. I'm middle age (50's), have been reloading for 30 years, and every single time I come to this forum I learn something new. Sometimes from an older member but many times from a younger one.

Sorry for the rant fellas but the "gun club thing" really gets me going.

Art

[Tazman1602]

A "good ol' boy" system is the worst possible answer, for many reasons.

Absolutely Jammer! It is my fondest wish that most members of this forum lived in my county. We could have the BEST gun club in the United States!

Art

[Ola]

A "good ol' boy" system is the worst possible answer, for many reasons.

I'm not sure what you mean. In the system I described there is no "elitism" because anyone has a chance to get in just by being an active member.

Just make a choice:
a) money
b) work

In my experience huge majority of the members are NOT willing to work so they happily pay their range fees.

[Splatter]

Then why, among the many people offering suggestions here, are you the only one reacting to my comment?

It never fails. Open the door to a crowded room, yell "hey, stupid!" and someone will jump up and yell back "I'm not stupid!"

Your analogy is not really applicable here. Instead of opening the door and shouting, you've been listening to the conversations, then right after someone finishes speaking you yell "You're stupid!"
It's true that your comment may not have been directed at the last speaker; but by any western-societal norms that I am aware of, almost everyone would reasonably infer that your comment was, in fact, directed at the last speaker.
If your comment was not directed at the last "speaker", (made about 5 hours before you left your comment) then I think it would be reasonable, and much more mature, if you just said who your comment was directed to, rather than fall back on the pseudo-intellectual "maybe I wasn't talking to you" position.
Really, it doesn't look good on my 5 year old, it is certainly not becoming on someone that should be nominally considered an adult.

[10x]

Holy thread derail Batman.....

To bring this back to prospective.
About five years ago the club held an appreciation trap shoot and supper for a heavy equipment supplier who "demoed" a hoe and a cat at our range. They left the equipment there for two weeks and we used it to upgrade backstops, build a handgun range, and build up the road to the 500 metre range.

There were six of us club members who volunteered that day. When it was time to cook supper all six volunteers were there. Supper was Rib steak and they, as volunteers, got to eat as well. As soon as supper was over one club member (rather than help with the clean up ) decided to break out his black powder cartridge rifle. The other volunteers (except for one lady) decided they had "important appointments" elsewhere and left. The shoot and supper were over by 7:00 pm. The lady who stayed back to help (diabetic) was not able to do much. I was the guy who ended up packing chairs, putting away tables, and returning the BBQ, tables, and chairs to the group I had borrowed them from.

It appears that volunteers are willing to eat expensive steaks but after they get the cream, simply leave. It is all fun til there is work to be done, then they go home.

[Jim]

The 10/90 syndrome.

[Sasquatch-1]

Holy thread derail Batman.....


There were six of us club members who volunteered that day. When it was time to cook supper all six volunteers were there. Supper was Rib steak and they, as volunteers, got to eat as well. As soon as supper was over one club member (rather than help with the clean up ) decided to break out his black powder cartridge rifle. The other volunteers (except for one lady) decided they had "important appointments" elsewhere and left. The shoot and supper were over by 7:00 pm. The lady who stayed back to help (diabetic) was not able to do much. I was the guy who ended up packing chairs, putting away tables, and returning the BBQ, tables, and chairs to the group I had borrowed them from.

It appears that volunteers are willing to eat expensive steaks but after they get the cream, simply leave. It is all fun til there is work to be done, then they go home.

This is the second comment like this. People showed up to work, did work and then left before all the work was done. I do not condone leaving a single person to clean up a mess (and especially find the guy who went to shoot very rude) but at least these people were there in the first place. maybe you should be more worried about the 99% who did not show up at all.

[Echo]

Many possible solutions to the OP's situation have been ventured. Here's another.

Tell the Pres that you WILL run the next show, but HE must raise the required number of volunteers. Once he has 120% firm (?) commitments, only then will you formally accept the position of Gun Show Honcho. That's called delegation - sometimes we MUST use upward delegation to get things done...

[10x]

Many possible solutions to the OP's situation have been ventured. Here's another.

Tell the Pres that you WILL run the next show, but HE must raise the required number of volunteers. Once he has 120% firm (?) commitments, only then will you formally accept the position of Gun Show Honcho. That's called delegation - sometimes we MUST use upward delegation to get things done...

Indeed, advertise a gun show, do the publicity for 8 to ten months, get vendors who travel for 900 plus miles booking tables then cancel in the last minute???
That would be a disaster as no vender would ever consider committing to attend again. The Pres. is part of the problem.... His solution "hire people". That brings in liability and workers comp rules come into play. The club insurance does cover volunteers - workers comp covers workers.

[Blacksmith]

10X go and get a quote from a subcontractor to provide all the labor, make sure the subcontractor is insured and covers workman's comp. When the President sees the quote you probably won't be having a show.

[10x]

10X go and get a quote from a subcontractor to provide all the labor, make sure the subcontractor is insured and covers workman's comp. When the President sees the quote you probably won't be having a show.

The show has been taken over by another club in another town. They can benefit...

[FISH4BUGS]

I served on the Planning Board in my community for 13 years. When a developer made application to put in a development within earshot of the range, I volunteered to challenge it with all my knowledge and expertise as a Planning Board member (not in the same community as I lived in by the way). the Club's Board was delighted to have the help and the land use expertise on their side. .
My recommendation to the Board was to basically attend the meetings and raise all kinds of legitimate objections (not too hard to do with a development of this size), thus slowing the approval of project and costing the developer more money. Requiring environmental studies, raising objections to traffic studies, challenging lot sizes, wildlife studies, etc......I sat through many of these as a Planning Board member and knew how the game was played.
When the time was right, then we would approach the devleoper and agree to have a plan note on each lot placed at the registry that there is an active shooting range within earshot of the propery being purchased. That way the buyers could not claim they didn't know.
I researched all the local zoning laws, attended all the hearings, spoke with specific objections, got the neighbors organized, etc. It was literally HUNDREDS of hours of volunteer time.
ONE person complained the Board about how I was progressing, and on one of my monthly reports to the Board (public meeting) they started reaming me about my techniques, how they were getting complaints (thy didn't know that I knew it was just one disgruntled abutter) and started to be critical of my approach.
After listening to 5 or 10 minutes of how I was embarrassing the club, how the perception of the club was being tarnished, etc. I got up and walked out. I resigned my volunteer position and I told the Board that they agreed to my strategy, told me what they wanted, and then kicked me in the teeth for it. I did not need that. I am OUTA HERE!
Sorry boys.....I am now just a member and a work party grunt labor volunteer. My validation will come when the new homeowners sue the club into extinction.
Why do these idiots do what they do? They criticize people for giving their time and expertise. I don't need it.
Why is it that just a few do the REAL work, give 100% and then the rest of them just slide by?....and complain about it?

[contender1]

10x, your OP has spun off into a direction about gun clubs & the lack of member support.

I feel your pain.

I'm a volunteer for the Friends of the NRA. Have been for years. That & a few other organizations such as BSA, (42 yrs) RMEF, (11 yrs) to name a few.

It's blaintly obvious to me that if you want a job done,, ask a busy person who believes in the project. They will make the time to do it because they believe in it.

I also own a private gun range. We also have a gun club. Very basic. My range is private,, not open to the public. Gun club members do not have access to the range at their discretion. ONLY the folks who I have working knowledge of their safety practices, AND who volunteer to help put on matches or upkeep of the range get range privilages. No work, no use, period.
As mentioned,, about 10% of the people do 90% of the work. But those 10% get the use of a range and it's facilities.

So, for your problem, I'd give notice that you were suspending your involvement in the gun show,, and as noted,, use your age & health as a fair reason. You wouldn't be lying. You can just be omitting another reason. Then, make plans to not be available for any future gun show advice or work.

Maybe one of these days when folks run out of good places to shoot they will realize why. But I doubt it.

It used to be that you could go shooting in many places w/o any problems. Nowadays,, it's harder to find places to shoot. So,, for those who can't work,, they will have to pay. For those who's age or health prevents work,, then they can get a bit of a pass. But even older folks, or those with limitations can do SOMETHING!

Sorry to see something good go away.

[Sasquatch-1]

So, for your problem, I'd give notice that you were suspending your involvement in the gun show,, and as noted,, use your age & health as a fair reason. You wouldn't be lying. You can just be omitting another reason. Then, make plans to not be available for any future gun show advice or work.

I disagree here. I think you should tell them the true reason you are quitting during a very crowded meeting. Let them know that it is appathy that is costing them a sizable chunk of their budget.

[FISH4BUGS]

I disagree here. I think you should tell them the true reason you are quitting during a very crowded meeting. Let them know that it is appathy that is costing them a sizable chunk of their budget.

During a Board meeting, which included all members, I walked away with my parting words about "...how can a Board expect people to volunteer to do things for the club whern all they get for it is criticism? I don't need or want that, and I doubt anyone else does either".
Did it make a dfference? I have no idea. But people that have their heads up their tushes rarely hear what others have to say anyway. Maybe they will remember when the club is sued out of existence.
At least I did my part in telling them. They can do with that as they please. Don't ask me to do anything except work party grunt labor again.