Lee TL309-230-5R 30 Caliber for 300 blackout/whisper

[Artful]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/938...5-ogive-radius

MidwayUSA teamed up with Lee Precision to custom design a cast bullet that would not only function from a suppressed AR-15 in 300 AAC Blackout but would not have problems feeding from a magazine. The bullet has a large meplat and long gentle rounded tangent ogive ensuring the bullet will feed from a magazine and be less sensitive to bullet seating depth.

Lee Bullet Molds are a great choice for reloaders looking for a quality mold at an affordable price. Lee machines their mold blocks from aluminum making them rust resistant. Aluminum molds heat up and cool down faster than iron or steel molds and good bullets can usually be produced only after a few casts. In addition, aluminum blocks are one-third the weight of iron or steel mold blocks offering the bullet caster less fatigue during extended casting sessions. To ensure the best possible bullets, mold block halves are clamped together then lathe-bored for unmatched roundness and size control. Weights given are Lee's weights with suggested alloy; actual weight may vary due to the alloy mixture used.

Technical Information:

Material: Machined Aluminum Mold Blocks and Hard Anodized Sprue Plate
Cavities: 2
Features: Tangential cut off which helps to eliminate the nip at the sprue cut off
Includes: Hardwood Handles
Notes:
Bullet Length: 1.363"

Not finding any other pic's on midway or Lee site's

Why does this sound familar? Oh, yeah NOE group buy

[Artful]

Ah, found a link/thread someone beat me too it. My search-foo was weak today
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=155363

[Moonie]

This is a very different boolit than the NOE boolit. I have this mold, it just arrived yesterday and I'll be casting in the next few days with it. I also have an Accurate Molds 245C which is VERY close to the NOE boolit.

The Lee boolit is a TL design, the only one I have, it is also boat tailed and round nosed with a 5R ogive.

[leadman]

I got my mold today. Do not waste your money on this mold!
The cavities are cut .020" off center of the blocks, The lower driving band casts at .310" which is great, but the front driving band is .307". The long nose has a meplat about .124" in diameter. The bore riding section in front of the driving band is .303" and .302" to .301" just before the taper.
The kicker is it is a BOAT-TAIL design! The lower driving band is only about .093" wide with rest of the base about .191" long tapering to a base .286" in diameter.
There is no gas check shank.
So you have a base that is smaller than bore diameter, with only about .093" of the boolit that will fill the grooves. Sounds like a recipe for extreme leading.

The tumble lube area is barely .308". The third picture has been run thru a Lee .309" sizer die and shows the boat-tail much better.

[Ben]

I'm always ready to learn, so here is the question.....

Why put a boat tail on a bullet of this design ?
What was hoped to be gained with this feature ?

Ben

[xacex]

leadman,

I see a lot of voids in those bullets you have cast. Are you using a bottom pour, or a dipper to fill those? With that much lead and such a long bullet I would think that this one needs to be cast real hot.
I will be getting mine this week and should be shooting it next week. Maybe it will work, maybe it wont. Has anyone shot it through a whisper or blackout yet to see what the results were?

xacex

[leadman]

I did a minimual cleaning of the mold so the voids are from the machining fluid. It is soaking in paint thinner now so maybe in the morning it will cast better. I was concerned when I opened the mold and saw the design so wanted to get a couple boolits in hand.
I spoke with Midway and they are going to look at the ad for this mold and see if corrections are needed. Don't believe the "large meplat" description would fit this mold. Then there is the boattail.
A 30 cal gas check will fit and crimp on but due to the large area between the check and the driving band I would wonder what would happen to the check if it was below the case mouth when fired, especially with a soft alloy that might bump up.
The nose will not fit in the muzzle end of any of my 30 caliber rifles, but does fit in my Arg. Mauser which uses a .313" boolit.
I'll cast some good boolits tomorrow and leave some plain base and gas check some and load them in several rifles to see what happens.
Luckily my 300 Whisper is a Contender carbine so it will be easy to check the bore for a gas check.

[xacex]

I am anxiously waiting for the results when you get them in. Like I said before, I have a horse in this race as well. The good thing if you can call it that, is it didn't cost over $100 if it does turn out to be a turd.
xacex

[nanuk]

with the tapered nose, it may have been designed to fit a tapered throat/leade?

and I'm wondering if the diameter of the front band has something to do with the casting temp/alloy.

the boattail may not be an issue if designed to be fired subsonic

And I'm waiting for Geargnasher and Pdawg to paper patch this thing and let 'er rip out at HV

[BCall]

Sorry you got a bum mold leadman. If the cavities in mine were cut off center, I would send it back. As with other Lee 2 cavity molds, the chance of a dud is probably higher. The mold I received is nicely round. All of the bands have cast no smaller than .3095, and averaging about .310. The nose of mine fit nicely in the bore of my 30-30 788 and in my 300 Win mag. It is a bit tight in my 2 groove 03A3 barrels. The meplat is very small though, despite what Midway has advertised. I don't currently have a whisper yet to try it in.

I did shoot a few in my 03A3. Tumble lubed and seated to chamber the base was below the case neck. I used the same load I have been using with the 308403's that I have been tumble lubing. 10 gr of Unique and I tried 12 gr of 4759.
At these low speeds I experienced yawing of the boolits, as evidenced by the oblong holes in the target. I did not recover any of them, but there was no leading of the bore. Accuracy was not good at all, but they may need more velocity. I'm not a big fan of seating below the base of the neck, but that is just me. If one wanted, the base could be opened up just above where a gas check could be seated, it would be like any other gas check design I would think. It could be seated very close to the same as the NOE 311-247 boolit I would think. I might buy another and have the boat tail section removed completely. Here's a pic of the nose.

[CENTEX BILL]

Would this boolit stabilize in 1 in 10 twist 300 blackout barrel??

Bill

[Artful]

Would this boolit stabilize in 1 in 10 twist 300 blackout barrel??

Bill

depends upon velocity - temp - atmospheric pressure - etc

but with a Bullet Length: 1.363" and using this site

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

shows down to 850 fps @ 70 F, it may stabalize.

Only way to tell for sure, in your barrel is to try it.

[Moonie]

My barrel is 1-8", I cast some up last night but haven't measured them. They fell right out of the mold so I'm fairly certain they aren't off center enough to matter much. This boolit was designed for the 1-8" and 1-7" twist of 300AAC Blackout barrels designed for the heavy subsonic loads. I have no doubt that with slower twists and slower velocities they might have some issues. I have a 245C from Accurate Molds that does great in my 30-06 with slower twist at 1950fps but I wouldn't push it too slow due to issues with stability.

[leadman]

I too was wanting the wide meplat advertised. Midway is still advertising Lee molds as lathe bored, which was changed a couple of years ago to cut one block at a time in a mill.
Hope to shoot some of these in my 300 Whisper 1 in 8" barrel by the weekend.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I hate to bring up an older thread but I figured I would share how I fixed the boat tail on this bullet.

I tried and could not get the bullet to shoot no matter the powder or charge. It is being fired out of a 10 twist bolt gun and the bullets are stabile but are giving me 3"-4" groups at 100 yards. That same gun shooting 208 Amax's are giving cloverleaf shot goups at 100 yards so I know the gun will shoot. It is a custom built Savage. The holes are nice and round so the bullets are stabile to 100 yards.

Anyways I spoke to some long time casters and showed them the bullets and they said the boat tail is probably causing some gas cutting. And the bullets are not sealing very well. So I decided the boat tail was the cause of my accuracy woes.

So today I decided to either fix or ruin the mold.

I picked up a chamfer tool from a hardware store. It was the one with like 30 cutters and goes from 1/8" at the tip to 1/2" at the widest part. It is about 2" long with a round shank on it. I was worried about getting a tapered base so I took the cutter and narrowed it down to ~.311" at its widest. This way I can sink it well below the mold's mouth and not have to worry about a taper.

I cut the chamfer tool down using a lathe but anyone can do the same thing with a drill press and a file or a grinder as long as you took it slow.

I took the mold itself and used a "C" clamp to clamp is closed. I chucked the chamfer tool in my drill press. And on the lowest speed I slowly lowered the chamfer tool into the mold. I held the mold loosely so the mold would self center itself. After a few minutes it looked like I removed the boat tail completely. It also measured really close to what I was needing.

Next I went out and cast some bullets. I was rewarded with a bullet that gets barely sized by a .310" sizer. SO by the time I polish it I should be about right. And the best part is the boat tail is GONE.

Here is a picture of the bullets as cast:


They are now weighing 240 grains and as long as they shoot I have a keeper of a mold.

I will be doing some testing this week and if I remember I will come back and post here.

Dolomite

[Artful]

excellent work Dolomite

[Moonie]

Very interested to know how this works out. I've just ordered drill bits to remove the boat tail from this mold and the BB on my 45 molds.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Here is a few sized next to a few caswt after a bit of polishing.


The dark area on two is a sharpie to make sure I was sizing them all the way around.

I will be accuracy testing them later today.

Dolomite

[Ben]

Dolomite_supafly

Did you end up with a little bit of " flash " around the base of the bullet ?

[Dolomite_supafly]

I did but it is so small and thin that when I tumble lube them they go away. After about 3 minutes of shaking in the bucket they look like they were supposed to come with a flat base.

Dolomite