AA #5 Info

[Shiloh]

I use a lot of this powder.

I am finishing the last remnant of two 8# jugs from the earlier 90's
The powder I have was made in Israel.

I have an un-opened one AA #5 pounder purchased Nov. 2003, as well as two from
2011. I spoke with Scott at Western Powders today as I had questions.
I actually have three powders, all made by different manufacturers.
Different, yet similar.

The latest online load data lists 125 gr RN Laser Cast for the 9mm.
The starting load is 4.7 gr and 5.4 max load. Velocities are listed at 957 and 1058 respectively.

The Info from AA Load book #2 published in 2000 is significantly different.
They list the starting load at 5.6 gr and 6.2 gr max, for listed velocities of 997
and 1133 respectively.

Big difference.

Anyone want to list the loads they use for a 125 gr boolit with AA#5 and where you got the data from?? Now that my 16 lbs is gone, I am going to have to start over.
Let me know would you??

Shiloh

[RayinNH]

Shiloh, I don't know if this helps or not. In the 2003 Reloader's Guide (the free booklet put out by Accurate) load data for a 115 gr. SWC with #5, start 5.7 gr. 1087 fps, max. 6.3 gr. 1182 fps. A 145 gr. lead RN start 4.6 gr. 905 fps., max 5.1 gr. 984 fps.

A Hornady 124 gr. RN bullet with #5, start 5.8 gr. 1104 fps., max. 6.4 gr. 1200 fps...Ray

[ScottJ]

I just tried 5.4 gr under Lee's 356-120-TC which drops at 124 for me. They only averaged 1014 for me out of my XD-9. I was hoping for 1050 or so.

I have a batch of 124gr XTPs I loaded up over 6.1gr a couple years back (using the current Accurate book for the time) and they average 1130.

[TCLouis]

Someone who should have known told me a lot of their load data changed when they got a more accurate method to measure pressures back about then (maybe earlier).

I called because the load I had been using was now quite a bit above the new max loading data in the latest publication. The person I was talking to said the he planned to continue using the exact same load as it worked for him.

That said, you truly have three different powders and I would work back up to the previous load for each of hem and use a chrono in the process.

Please report testing results, will be interesting to see how well powders from different producers/countries compare

[0verkill]

Check all the Accurate powders against new load data. Most of the powders are different now. Almost easier just not to fool with Accurate. I can't remember if it was this forum or another where a guy had a near 20% overcharge due to using old Accurate data with new powders.

[Shiloh]

Someone who should have known told me a lot of their load data changed when they got a more accurate method to measure pressures back abut then (maybe earlier). I called because the new starting load I had been using was now above the new max loading data in the latest publication. The person I was talking to said the he planned to continue using the same load he had in the past (which happened to be the same I was using).

That said, you truly have three different powders and I would work back up to the previous load and use a chrono in the process.

That is what steve said as well.

I'll do some testing of the other two thta I have and report back
The lot I am almost done with gave consistant, accurate loads, and meters wonderfully.

I'll dig out the older AA volume #1 load manual and see what it says from the powder of that time. Steve also told me to look for more uniform powder from a steady supplier now that it is a Western Powders Brand.

Shiloh

Shiloh

[Rocky Raab]

Here's the straight skinny:

Over several decades, Accurate has been three different companies. The first two versions bought powders in huge lots made to their specifications, but from the lowest bidder. So a given powder might have been from Israel, France, Belgium, South Africa, the Czech Republic; the next lot often came from somewhere else. Naturally, powders were never exactly the same.

When Western Powder took over, they re-tested all the originally published loads. Many of them fell into the "Whoa!" category. As a result, do NOT use any load data from Accurate Manuals One or Two. Use ONLY data you can download from Western/Accurate (in PDF format).

Western assures us that they have abandoned the "lowest bidder" approach. Each powder will be made by one and only one supplier. Some are overseas, but they also use the St Marks plant in Florida for many powders. You can trust that powders bought from now on will be consistent.

For older supplies, work loads up yourself using normal velocity for a given cartridge/bullet as your guide.

[FergusonTO35]

I've been using the data from the second edition of Lee's Modern Reloading for quite awhile now with good success in both 9mm and .38 Special.

[GabbyM]

In 9x19mm the brass varies so much that any load data you do use needs to take into consideration listed brass used for that data development.

I use a micrometer to measure case head expansion and a chronograph for velocity.
I look for a load that causes no measurable head expansion. You need a good micrometer with a tenths scale because by expansion I’m talking about .0001 and less. Fast powders like WW231 will IME start to expand case heads long before reaching there listed max load velocities. I’ve read others having the same experience. WW231 makes an excellent midrange accuracy load in 9mm. AA#5 that I had yielded max velocity with no over pressure signs and good ballistic consistency. With the 124gr bullets. As a side note I never have been able to reach published velocities for Power Pistol before case head expansion appeared.

[Rocky Raab]

Ferg, Lee doesn't develop load data. They don't even have a lab. ALL the loads in their books are copied from other sources. If they copied from either of the two original Accurate manuals, that data is highly suspect.

[Shiloh]

Here's the straight skinny:

Over several decades, Accurate has been three different companies. The first two versions bought powders in huge lots made to their specifications, but from the lowest bidder. So a given powder might have been from Israel, France, Belgium, South Africa, the Czech Republic; the next lot often came from somewhere else. Naturally, powders were never exactly the same.

When Western Powder took over, they re-tested all the originally published loads. Many of them fell into the "Whoa!" category. As a result, do NOT use any load data from Accurate Manuals One or Two. Use ONLY data you can download from Western/Accurate (in PDF format).

Western assures us that they have abandoned the "lowest bidder" approach. Each powder will be made by one and only one supplier. Some are overseas, but they also use the St Marks plant in Florida for many powders. You can trust that powders bought from now on will be consistent.

For older supplies, work loads up yourself using normal velocity for a given cartridge/bullet as your guide.

Great post Rocky!!

I Thought that Steve said St Johns but wasn't sure. I looked for St Johns Powder
Company. No Dice. It was St Marks!! He did say to look for more consistency.

I Loaded up 20 rounds with the 2003 powder, and 20 rounds of the new 2011 powder. I used AA manual #2 for the 2003 and AA PDF online for the 2011powder.
Both using the published starting load.

My plan is to chrongraph the loads today. I'll post data.

Shiloh