Expander ball

[RoyRogers]

I finally got to try some cast bullets in a Yugo Mauser with a well worn tube. They tightened my group size from ~ 12" to 6-7" @ 50yds. I used 10gr Unique over a 175 gr GC semi spitzer. The recoil was similar to a 22 rimfire & I could hear the bullet hit the plywood backing like I can when I shoot a pellet rifle at a cardboard box. Set my sights to the 400 meter setting to stay in the black.

Here's my question: Could seating the bullets to just touch the lands help my group size even more? Maybe another grain or 2 of Unique?

These are the first cast rifle boolits I have ever loaded & I had a bit of trouble getting the bullets started into my sized case mouths. They did not shave but 2 tilted & I ruined those 2 cases.

My 8x57 dies are by Lee. Does Lee make an expander ball/decapper a couple of thousandths larger? I don't need the decapper but if thats the way it comes it would be ok - just as long as I can get a little more space to work with. Last, how can I bell the case mouths like one does with pistol dies to help get the lead bullets started?

Thanks

[versifier]

What you are looking for is either a Lee Universal Case Expanding Die or a Lyman M Die. They flare or bell the case mouth just like with pistol cases. Once you get the boolits started, they'll be fine.

As to upping the charge of Unique, only your rifle can tell you. Try it and see if the groups improve. You can safely approach 20gr of UNQ and maybe more without problems, but that doesn't mean it will be more accurate, or that it won't. Every rifle is different and what works best in mine tells you absolutely nothing about what will work best in yours.

Any boolit/bullet will usually perform better up close to the origin of the lands.

Try some 2400 and reduced charges of 4895, RE7, and 3031, too.

[Bug]

Roy,
You're not in East Texas, are you? I happen to know someone by that name!
In answer:
Lee does not make incremental expander balls. At least not that I'm aware of. You could get the next-caliber expander, and polish it down to your specs, though that might take a while. However, they do make a universal expander die:

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...seExpandingDie

I imagine most of us use Lyman "M" dies. It expands the case neck for a better fit, and you can set the flare just as you like. These can also be polished down, for a tighter boolit fit.

Yessir, seating the boolit out closer to (even INTO!!!) the lands CAN make them more accurate. So can more powder. That will depend entirely on your rifle, load, alloy, boolit diameter, pressure, powder, phase of the moon, and a host of esoteric influences. You have to try it and see what the results are. Good notes will be invaluable in the future.
In your instance, I'd likely try Red Dot powder for plinking, and maybe go to 2400 for speeding things up to around 1800-2000fps.
A good cast boolit manual can be of significant assistance, as can a chronograph.
Likely this is the best-of-the-best forum for learning. There is a HUGE amount of knowledge here.
Good Luck!..........................Bug.

[RoyRogers]

As to upping the charge of Unique, only your rifle can tell you. Try it and see if the groups improve. You can safely approach 20gr of UNQ and maybe more without problems, but that doesn't mean it will be more accurate, or that it won't. Every rifle is different and what works best in mine tells you absolutely nothing about what will work best in yours.

Yes - dumb question on my part... Thanks for the die (& powder) recomendations. I want to try to find loads using Unique because I have quite a bit of it that needs to be used up.

You're not in East Texas, are you? I happen to know someone by that name!

No, it is just a screen name

Many of my most accurate jacketed bullets loads are either just off or right on the lands but since I am new to the cast game I wanted to get some advice. I figured cast would start engraving at much lower pressures than jacketed - even right on the lands - but I have made it enough years now to have learned it only takes a minute to ask before leaping into action based on my assumptions. I won't admit to just how many years it took me to get to that point of 'enlightenment'...

Later - RR

[carpetman]

Roy Rogers---Not real name,just a screen name. Was wondering if real name might be Gene Autry or Hopalog Cassidy,or even Lone Ranger?

[versifier]

There are no dumb questions, except those a man is too proud to ask. (That kind of man doesn't last too long handloading, though.) There was a time for each of us when there was nothing obvious about it. Back then we had to buy a bunch of books, wait weeks or months for them to arrive, then read and study. Here and now, we have a place to come and ask, and even get answers in real time. Among new handloaders, there has always been the persistant myth that there's a Universal Load (heavenly music, please) that beats MOA even in a shotgun. And that there's actually someone out there somewhere who'll share it. Toll bridge for sale in NYC if anyone's interested, will sell cheap......
There are general trends like medium charges of "powder A" have averaged pretty good in all my "caliber B" chambered rifles with bullets/boolits of such and such a weight. There are so many more variables introduced with cast boolits that we each cross the line into alchemy on a regular basis. Where'd I put my pointy hat?
"Double, double,
Toil and trouble
Fire burn
And cauldron bubble"

[Ricochet]

Don't waste your time looking for a bigger expander ball. Get a Lee Universal Expander Die.

[Moose]

Think you are on the right track - been shooting squib loads for years, and the 8mm is one of them.We use the Lee 175 grain .323 item, sans gaschk, and 2.9 grains Bullseye with a little kapok (old cushion) stuffer - these things will hit bottle caps at 28 yds, mil.sights set at 600m. Just a nice, quiet whap! and no one gets upset. Velocity runs about 600fps. Use the Lee universal expl die to bell the case mouths, and neck size only. Good plinking.

[RoyRogers]

Carpetman...

Wow!! You are good! My real name is Gene Autry! How did you know??

Now, got to ride off into the sunset...

All - will order the Lee universal expander pronto - or is that tonto?

[Phil]

Looks like we're all here!

Hoppy

[Newtire]

I used 10gr Unique over a 175 gr GC semi spitzer.

Thanks

Howdy Roy,

Use 17.5 gr. 2400 with the Lee 175 gr. & get great results in 8 x 57 in my Turkish Mauser. I use 12.5 gr. Unique in my .30-06 with a 175 gr. boolit and it just seems to like that load a bunch. Unique is pretty hot stuff so watch out getting too heavy of a charge.

I found flat primers at anything over 18 gr. with a 110 gr. M-1 carbine "j-word" bullet in my .30-06 rifles.

Let us know how you do with the Unique load OK? Have lots of that stuff myself! ONce you get the right combo, it's like magic for plinking loads.