'91 Arg. Mauser won't feed from magazine

[StanDahl]

My 1891 Argentine Mauser won't feed cast bullets from the magazine. It has at times, but not consistently. I'd like to use this rifle in our clubs CMP matches, but I can't get it to feed properly with the Lee Fat 30 or a new NOE 314299. It feeds 150 gr j-word bullets just fine though. Here are some pics:



Note that the magazine follower(?) doesn't rise all the way to the top on the front end. There is friction between it and the metal above it. It seems that there should be more oomph below this point. (The OAL isn't too long, the cartridge is just pushed forward in this shot. A cartridge with a deeply seated bullet looks the same.)



With a loaded round in the magazine, the follower won't push the nose up into the loading ramp and so it just bangs into the end of the magazine on closing the bolt. With a full 5 rounds in the magazine, the top two will feed, but the last three won't. I thought about bending the springs, but don't want to bugger anything up.



I had to time out of a rapid fire round once because of this, but another time I made it just fine. I've tried many different OAL's. I believe the cases are all full length resized. Yesterday I made it work by shooting the Fat 30 on the slow fire rounds and jacketed bullets on the rapid fire rounds and using two different points of aim. The jacketed rounds were leftovers from an old experiment and I only had 20 left to use. (I would have pulled it off better if the second batch of 10 weren't a slightly different load and shot higher than the first - no time to peek at the spotting scope during the round.)

I had a friends '91 engineer carbine for a while, and noticed that it was less finicky, but it jammed at times also.

Any ideas?

[looseprojectile]

narrowing the follower a little at the front if that is where it is rubbing.
I use the SAECO cone shaped ogive with the little round nose. No problem.
I might try to spread the magazine box too.
Those noses have to be up in front.
Have no issues with my little carbine.

I wish you well.


Life is good

[Larry Gibson]

narrowing the follower a little at the front if that is where it is rubbing.

Looseprojectile nailed it if the follower is sticking on the insides of the magazine.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

the thing is 100 years old.
the follower rubbing is one thing, but the spring needs to push the round up enough for the bolt to push it forward.
i can see a rub mark in the first picture,a little stoning there won't hurt anything.
the follower should sit flush at the top of the mag well with some pressure.
i would then look at the springs.

[StanDahl]

What looks like rubbing is actually where the magazine wall moves inward, creating a constriction. I'm not sure that if I stone it that the spring is strong enough to push the round up, but there's one way to find out...

[StanDahl]

I thinned that part of the follower, but no change. I wonder if the springs can be bent or in some way modified?

[looseprojectile]

It would probably help a lot if you soaked the whole floor plate and complete magazine and springs in a bucket of two stroke mix or just plain gas or solvent for a day or two. On my own guns I often use Greased Lightning, or an automotive grease cutter. The grease in the nooks and crannies is over a hundred and ten years old on that rifle. Congealed grease and dirt will keep those joints from fully operating.
Then oil them with light oil.
Clean works much better.
Way more than half of the gun repairs I do are because the guns are dirty and gummy. I love cleaning guns!


Life is good

[Bret4207]

LP is offering good advice in post 7. Clean it first, check for wood pressing on the mag too. That can flex things enough to cause issues. To my eye, the spring looks to have enough bend, but it could be age has taken it's toll. Go slowly whatever you do!

[RayinNH]

If you look at picture number 3, right under the ?, that pinned joint does look like it has petrified crud built up in it. LP suggestion of cleaning makes a lot of sense...Ray

[DonMountain]

I've had this same problem using cast lead boolits that were heavy for caliber, whereas lighter j-bullets don't. It appears to me that the springs and linkage for the follower will press the rear of the follower up higher when using especially front heavy cartridges. The centroid of the weight is way forward instead of toward the middle of the cartridge. And the spring on the bottom isn't elevating the first leaf of the follower enough as the stack of cartridges rises and the second spring is stronger and tilting the cartridge down forward. So, maybe you could either get a lighter boolit or stretch up the bottom spring. After cleaning and lubricating of course!

[Buckshot]

..............A good complete cleaning may do it as others have mentioned. In addition if the follower IS rubbing ..........it shouldn't be. If the cleaning didn't take care of it I'd try bending the springs up slightly. If one should break, Springfield Sporters http://www.ssporters.com./parts/91%2...E%20MAUSER.htm has them both available for $5 ea, or less.

From the couple pictures it looks as though you have a very nice M91. I'd like to see the rest of it, please. The 1891 Argentines (rifle, or carbine) are my favorite military rifles.

..............Buckshot

[leadman]

I think it is Numrich that has new springs for these. Might be Sarco.
I have bent the springs in both of my 91s with np problems. Cleaning and oiling the parts in the magazine are a good idea for these guns. Could be one reason why the design was changed on the 93s.

[StanDahl]

Well, I guess this site only notifies me of new replies for a few hours after the original posting then forgets...anyway, there really isn't any petrified crud in there, it's all soft crud and was cleaned out after I took it apart, but before I took the photo. The joints all work pretty smoothly and go through their full range of motion.

I think what DonMountain said fits the situation perfectly and seems to be what is happening. I would like to bend the springs, but getting a new set and bending those would make me feel better.

Buckshot, I'm sure you've seen this rifle before in the distant past, I think I've posted photos more than once, let's see if Photobucket has any...Nope! Here are some that I took back in 2003, it still looks just as good.



The serial numbers all match and the bore is excellent. It's an "N" prefix, I forget what year that is - 1895?



The crest got scrubbed unfortunately. At the same auction I could've picked up a Chilean Mauser in beautiful condition - with the crest - for more than twice as much as I paid for this one, which was about $175.



I picked up a bayonet at a gun show a few years later...It cost me $90 at the time, but I guess I wanted it. I hope it's the right one, it fits anyway.



The Orange Co. Register did a spread on our local club's CMP matches, I managed to end up in a small pic. on the front page of the newspaper, but I was shooting my Krag that time. That one feeds everything I put into it, every time, but it's a dicey proposition during the rapid fire because of the loading procedure. I drop a bullet, and risk timing out. I'm losing a lot of my old brass in that gun to case splits and new brass is way more pricey than it used to be!

[looseprojectile]

I'm still with you.
I took my magazine apart. My follower has a quite a bit more open angle between the follower and the middle piece. As near as I can tell mine is open about three eights of an inch more than yours. All my parts seem to be original and un mucked with.
The height of the lifter is controlled at the small end where the pivot pin is and the little devil can pinch you.
You ought to be able to remove a little metal from the inside at that point to enable the lifter to rise up some. That pinch point is what determines the heighth of the lifter at the top front.
My lifter is about a sixteenth of an inch higher at the front and takes about three quarters of a pound pressure to start moving it down. The amount of metal in those biting little jaws is exactly what locates the front of the follower.
I would not hesitate to remove some material from that joint to raise the follower.
The front of my follower clears the bottom of the bolt by a quarter of an inch and I believe it could be much higher without hurting a thing.
I can not imagine what might have caused your gun to be that way.
All it needed to do is feed pointed hardball till you tried to feed it BOOLITS.

Life is good