Pistol/revolver primer pocket cleaning

[DrCaveman]

Search more, they are there. You can buy a 3 pack, 24, 25 and 26# springs. You can even get 28# for rifle primers.
Factory is actually 22 to 23# for a BH, SBH.

I guess I neglected to mention that I am shooting a gp100. Gefiltphish stated in post #57 what I found. Do you have another source of springs, or is your experience just with Blackhawks?

[DrCaveman]

The only primer pockets that get cleaned are on the brass that gets lubed before resizing. This is mainly rifle brass.

The exception is my 44 mag brass. It gets lubed and resized before I tumble because reloading it in my Dillon 550 is to much of a chore. Eliminating that step makes for a much more enjoyable reloading session. My shoulder is way more appreciative.

Your GP100 shouldn't give you to much of a problem with a light primer strike. Of the four I own, I have had no such issues. Is your pistol new?? Either way I would call ruger. The have awesome customer service and will send you a replacement spring for free. Just give them a call and tell them what's up.

I bought it used, though i could not see any evidence of it having been fired. Good clean up job, I guess, and a tough gun. Would they still provide this awesome service to a second owner?

[DrCaveman]

That makes at least three of us. Primers, by their rather explosive nature, are self cleaning. I did it when I first started reloading 30+ years ago...don't waste your time. Try some Federal primers....your problem will probably go away.

The primers pictured are all Federal. I made the switch for good in my 38 spl hand loads after my smith refused to consistenly set off the CCI.

Now, as for the 45 (no primers pictured in this thread), those were the same CCI that have performed nearly flawlessly for me before now. Frankly I cannot pin the problems with the 45 directly on the primers, there were many things going wrong. Let's take that out of the discussion, and I'll just focus on fixing my gp100.

[Lizard333]

I bought it used, though i could not see any evidence of it having been fired. Good clean up job, I guess, and a tough gun. Would they still provide this awesome service to a second owner?

Give em a call. They are awesome. You got nothing to lose and everything to gain.

[williamwaco]

It sounds like I need to re-visit some advice regarding mainspring replacement on my model 19.

I will try the glass-surface method to better decide if I am seating them fully. But am I wrong or would most incomplete seatings be ignited by a second hammer drop, assuming proper spring health? I kinda thought that the first hammer strike seated the primer, then the second strike allowed the primer to do its magic.

I only experienced that phenomenon within my first few hundred rounds loaded while I was learning the basics of reloading, and chickening out on the pressure I applied while seating primers. Since then, no misfire has fired from a second strike from the same gun.

maybe my guns need a deeper cleaning. I can take out the guts of the GP100 and usually find some muck but I'm not sure how much deeper I can break down the CZ97. Oh well, good time to learn.

I have replaced around half a dozen main springs on S&W K frame revolvers over the years. It happens on old guns, say > 20 years or on guns that are shot a lot.

I have two model 19s right now. Both are quite old and both have the problem. If it fails to fire on the first strike, it will not fire after three or four. I can move it to another revolver and it will then fire first time.


.

[DrCaveman]

Williamwaco

My m19 serial puts it as made in the late 70's, it is a -3. I have only had it a few years, and have put probably 1500 38 spl rounds through it, and probably 250 mag loads.

Sounds like it might be time for a new spring. Dunno how many times I have to hear this before I just hit 'purchase now' on my screen. Buying things is so easy now, but I still always debate it for a ridiculous amount of time.

[soldierbilly1]

I just re-processed about 150 cases. I used a kinetic bullet puller and about 8/40 of the Win SP primers failed to ignite! All the Federal primers lit off well.
It took 8 -11 whacks with the puller to get the FWC's off. Did this compromise the primers?
thanks
billy boy

[gwilliams2]

That makes at least three of us. Primers, by their rather explosive nature, are self cleaning. I did it when I first started reloading 30+ years ago...don't waste your time. Try some Federal primers....your problem will probably go away.

That makes at least 4... I've never cleaned a pocket, did have a batch of Winchester SP primers that 2 or 3 out of every hundred just wouldn't go bang once. I don't buy Winchester primers anymore...

[Shiloh]

I don't think I've ever cleaned out a primer pocket. Ever.

Emrah

Never on pistol brass for me. Rifle pockets?? Yes.

Shiloh

[MikeS]

While speaking of primers, are the Tula LP primers much hotter than CCI? I just recently got a Tanfoglio GT41 (in 41AE caliber) and I've been loading 5.2gr of Unique with a 170gr cast boolit, and when using Tula primers they're getting flattened out like a load that too hot, and some of the primers are actually getting a hole punched in them from the firing pin. When I tried some CCI LP primers I didn't have either problem. I've been using the Tula primers without incident in 45ACP both with a Smith 22-4, and a Taurus PT1911, it's just with the GT41 that I have any problem. From everything I've found, 5.2gr of Unique isn't too hot for the 41AE, so it's not like I'm shooting a load that's even borderline hot!

[Char-Gar]

I have been loading handgun ammo for well over 50 years and 350,000 rounds and have never cleaned a primer pocket nor have problems like the OP.

What few FTF I have had, could be traced to a light hammer strike or the occasional bad primer.

[matdental]

What I am thinking is that the pockets have become fouled enough that in some instances this is preventing proper ignition.

My reload procedure is: lightly clean my fired cases using liquid solution (spent primers still in case), then run them through my sizing/decapping die, and prime. Then the rest. This means that no, I do not ream my primer pockets nor remove primers prior to cleaning.
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DRCaveman:

I am a fanatic on clean brass, but fail to understand the point.
What does a dirty primer pocket have to do with primers not firing? They ether fire, or not fire...Everything else is e-relevant, and down-stream. Ignition, and burning happens after the primer pops.
If the primer is struck and fires, but the flash hole prevents ignition, you would hear and feel the primer ignite. Even a primer with no powder will kick the bullet out of the case...
If the primer is properly seated, and properly struck, and nothing happens, that is an inert primer, or...if you will....a Dud....
Also I can’t imagine a normal flash hole so obstructed not to allow any kind of ignition, ignition delay, or otherwise... My guess is that the liquid cleaner is still wet in the primer pockets when you are seating the primers.

Wayne

[tenx]

Quit cleaning primer pockets 30 years ago. I put newly loaded ammo bullet down in a plastic box and run my finger over the primer feeling for seating depth. Also I don't touch primers with my hands/fingers when reloading, dump them in a primer flip tray, load the primer tube and load. Don't seem to recall having any misfires.

[Muddydogs]

Its not the no cleaning of primer pockets or your springs, its cleaning them in liquid with the old primers still in place. If you are going to use liquid deprime first, if you don't want to deprime first then tumble in dry media. This is happening in 2 weapons so the chance that both springs are bad is slim. As stated above by many posters there are a lot of us that don't clean pistol primer pockets and have loaded the same cases many times with no problems, I myself use CCI primers and have 10 firings on some .40 brass that I have never looked inside the primer pocket. Brass goes from gun to tumbler to LnL AP where its loaded.

Its usually the simplest answer in the end.

[mdi]

Perhaps a liquid cleaner is the culprit. Liquid gets into the flash hole and makes a "mud" out of the primer residue. Mud dries hard and prohibits new primer from seating completely. Hey, just a thought...

[ColColt]

I clean cases after every range visit whether I shot 50 or 300 in the Lyman Turbo 1200. Then, every pocket gets cleaned with the Lyman Primer Pocket Cleaning tool. I've used CCI primers since 1969 and never with rifle or pistol large or small have any failed.

Everyone does things differently as testified on the various posts. If I started having trouble as mentioned I'd look to a different source than the primer if I did the above. The mainspring sounds suspect to me. I have had a few FTF with the 45ACP due to not seating the primer completely flush or below but that was my fault, not the primer. I'd never use a liquid cleaner but that's me. Corncob media has always done the job.

[Lizard333]

While speaking of primers, are the Tula LP primers much hotter than CCI? I just recently got a Tanfoglio GT41 (in 41AE caliber) and I've been loading 5.2gr of Unique with a 170gr cast boolit, and when using Tula primers they're getting flattened out like a load that too hot, and some of the primers are actually getting a hole punched in them from the firing pin. When I tried some CCI LP primers I didn't have either problem. I've been using the Tula primers without incident in 45ACP both with a Smith 22-4, and a Taurus PT1911, it's just with the GT41 that I have any problem. From everything I've found, 5.2gr of Unique isn't too hot for the 41AE, so it's not like I'm shooting a load that's even borderline hot!

It sounds like the material the Tula primers are made out is a thinner. Hence the reason you poking holes in them and why they are more flat with your standard load. A chrony would prove this but I suspect this is your culprit.

[Bigslug]

I seriously doubt you're going to have failure to ignite because of a little bit of crud in the flash hole. Primers make a fairly substantial bang that can push a bullet well down the bore all by themselves - a few lumps of carbon in the way are just going to get blasted up into the powder charge.

Primer pocket uniforming and cleaning is something that is typically done for the most consistent ignition and lock/barrel time possible in order to create match-winning accuracy. It's also worth considering if you are worried about a high primer situation creating an out-of-battery slam fire in certain autoloaders. As far as making sure your powder actually burns - I don't think it's gonna help. Your problems are most likely from the primers themselves - no explosive, not enough explosive, no anvil, poorly installed anvil, overly thick primer cup. . .things of that ilk.

[joec]

I also use a Progressive press but still deprime my dirty brass before cleaning it regardless. I also use the Lee Primer pocket tool the other mentioned as it does the job all all of the pistol ammo I load. Federal primers also seem to be the easiest to fire since it doesn't take much. The only time I've had a problem with a primer is one put in wrong or not deep enough (factory ammo). I've used Remington, CCI, Wolf for the most part and do avoid federal.

[DrCaveman]

I seriously doubt you're going to have failure to ignite because of a little bit of crud in the flash hole. Primers make a fairly substantial bang that can push a bullet well down the bore all by themselves - a few lumps of carbon in the way are just going to get blasted up into the powder charge.

Primer pocket uniforming and cleaning is something that is typically done for the most consistent ignition and lock/barrel time possible in order to create match-winning accuracy. It's also worth considering if you are worried about a high primer situation creating an out-of-battery slam fire in certain autoloaders. As far as making sure your powder actually burns - I don't think it's gonna help. Your problems are most likely from the primers themselves - no explosive, not enough explosive, no anvil, poorly installed anvil, overly thick primer cup. . .things of that ilk.

Bigslug

Are you suggesting simply that the primers were defective? That is certainly the conclusion that I immediately came to, since I thought I had assembled the cartridges properly. But humility came into effect when I received many replies suggesting I hadn't let the cases dry sufficiently or that my guns' springs were to blame.

I have also come to my own hypothesis that I may have been mashing some primers during seating. I have taken it a little easier on the primer seating step since then.

I feel like my failure rate exceeds that which would be acceptable from a primer manufacturer, but maybe there are bad lots.

I guess the only way to suss this possibility out is to shoot more. Dang I wish I had a range out back of my house. Those pesky neighbors and city ordinances.