Swapping bullets between 7.62x54R and 7.62x39 FMJ and cast

[KaliforniaRebel]

I think this is the best place for this topic. After casting at least 100 rounds of both 7.62x39 and .303 British for my Mosin and SKS, I've debated on using the unused projectiles from the ammo from both shoud I pull a few rounds from cases. Both rounds are .310 exact.

The 7.62x54R FMJ projectiles are Yugo milsurp and the 7.62x39 bullets are Tulammo. I loaded a test round in a 7.62x39 case with a Yugo milsurp bullet and using a reduced load (-10%) of 24.5 gr H4895 and I can tell it compressed slightly. It's clearly longer and will not load in the magazine as such, but it will chamber the battery properly. I only seated it as far as the crimp groove allowed not going further then I know is needed.

My main question is "How many people have tried this?" My #1 concern is only that the 7.62x54R bullet being 25% longer will have too much friction area for it to properly exit the barrel. I'm not going to try it if deemed unsafe.

[KaliforniaRebel]

I'd forgotten to add that the weights are 148 gr for the 7.62x54R and 123 gr for the 7.62x39 bullets. I went off of 150 gr H4895 reload data for the milder load in the 7.62x39 casing.

[KaliforniaRebel]

I feel like this is falling on deaf ears (or the blind I suppose) so I'll show by picture instead.

From left is the 7.62x54R, 7.62x39, My loaded cartridge and two projectiles showing the bullet seat.

[ShooterAZ]

After 84 views and no replies, I'll step out on a limb here and tell you that I would not use the heavier 148gr bullet in the 7.62x39. You could try the lighter bullet in the 7.62x54R if you could find load data for that light of a bullet.

[KaliforniaRebel]

The good news with 7.62x54R reload data is that .308 data works great as a substitute being just a hair smaller. Hogdon has plenty of website data on the .308 and a 125 gr FMJ in said case is easy enough to do. I most likely would use them for reduced loads paired with 2400.

I agree that the larger boat tail is a big question mark in autoloader. I don't know if interchanging the cast versions of both fall under the same situation. Maybe someone has more on this.

[leadman]

I've shot 150gr cast in an SKS with no issues.

[Larry Gibson]

The AK/SKS bullets will shoot ok to good in the 7.62x54R if simply "mexican matched" or if reloaded. They are not exactly an "accuracy" bullet but will give good plinking or "blastins" service if your MN has a groove diameter under .312. Over that and accuracy can be iffy to say the least.

The 150 MN 7.62x54R bullets over 24.5 gr 4895 in the 7.62x39 is a good load and should shoot as well as the bullets and SKS are capable of. However, do not "mexican match" the heavier bullet in the 7.62x39.

Larry Gibson

[KaliforniaRebel]

The 150 MN 7.62x54R bullets over 24.5 gr 4895 in the 7.62x39 is a good load and should shoot as well as the bullets and SKS are capable of. However, do not "mexican match" the heavier bullet in the 7.62x39.

Larry Gibson

As much as I hate to say it even with the projectile lubed and non-crimped, I don't feel safe using said bullet with so much extra surface area under "god-only-knows" case pressure when fired. I was only hoping with the boat tail accuracy would improve to a best ever sub rating for an SKS.

:Edit: Just thinking about case pressures at the moment, 24.5 gr of H4895 in the 7.62x39 is roughly 50% of a normal charge for the 7.62x54 (48 gr). There is, however, no pocket of air. I know there is documented articles on going down as low as 60% on H4895, but this seems to be pushing it.

I can't help thinking "what if..."

[Pigslayer]

If you want to shoot jacketed, try Hornaday .312 dia. 150 SP. if your bore will allow. I shoot them with great success using 53 grs. H4831.

[Larry Gibson]

KaliforniaRebel

As much as I hate to say it even with the projectile lubed and non-crimped, I don't feel safe using said bullet with so much extra surface area under "god-only-knows" case pressure when fired. I was only hoping with the boat tail accuracy would improve to a best ever sub rating for an SKS.

:Edit: Just thinking about case pressures at the moment, 24.5 gr of H4895 in the 7.62x39 is roughly 50% of a normal charge for the 7.62x54 (48 gr). There is, however, no pocket of air. I know there is documented articles on going down as low as 60% on H4895, but this seems to be pushing it.

I can't help thinking "what if...

Well, if you check the loading data for 4895 under 150 gr jacketed bullets it takes 28 gr (if you could get that in the case and still seat that 150 FMJBT to the correct oal) to equal standard psi for the 7.62x39. 27 - 28 gr H4895 under the Speer .311 or Hornady .312 SPs makes for a nice hunting load in the 7.62x39 in both my Russian SKS and Mini MK X Mauser.

Larry Gibson

[badbob454]

hope this helps a little , the tula company makes some 154 gr soft point ammo in the sks , so i think if given the proper amount of powder , your formula should work ...i would start at less than a compressed load and work my way up . here are some 150 gr loads with different powders , note these are probably 309 diameter pills .

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/de...Powder&Source=

[badbob454]

if you decide not to use the silver tip fmj's ... shoot me a pm, im interested in trying
the same thing...bob

[KaliforniaRebel]

I think the only reason the load compresses is only due to the length of the projectile.

A light bulb just went off over my head folks. I've got a crazy idea that should work.

These Mosin rounds look perfect to be cut. This will allow proper case length so the bullet will sit shorter in the 7.62x39 case reducing my oversize bullet concerns.

It also makes two bullets out of one. For what else pray tell?

7.62x25. I didn't realize so many 50 odd year old soviet guns shot a .310 bullet. I've always wanted an excuse to buy a Tokarev. Now I have one.

:Edit: At first this didn't seem so bad, but short of a hacksaw and vice grips, it's a pain. Forget I even considered it.

[Rangefinder]

The thing to consider isn't necessarily the bullet weight---150gr. isn't too big a stretch for 7.62x39. BUT, I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts that x54 bullet wouldn't pass a magnet test. The steel core makes it MUCH longer than a lead core 150gr. bullet, so it's going to change how pressures run. Not saying it would be safe or not--BUT, it could be questionable.

For loading the 7,62x54... Starting loads for 30-06 are about as close to transferable as you'll find. Likewise is load data for 30-30 transferable to 7.62x39. perhaps look through some 30-30 data on a load with similar characteristics for what you're trying to do.

[res45]

Many moons ago when I got my first mosin and factory SP ammo or brass wasn't readily available to me I Mexican match lots of Bulgarian 147 and 187 gr. FMJ ammo with commercial .311 Speer and Sierra SP bullet in 150 and 180 gr. weights in there respective cartridges.

I also work up some loads using the cartridges loaded with the 147 gr. bullet and replaced them with the Sierra 125 gr. SP. I dropped the original factory powder charge down two grains with either bullet mentioned and the loads not only shot more accurate but primers showed any lack of pressure signs as compared to the original factory ammo. I see no reasons why you cant used the X39 pulled bullets in the 54r. The groove dia. of my mosin measured .312 and all the surplus 54r or X39 bullet I measure came out to .310. to .310.5 and they shot surprisingly accurate but not as good as the .311 replacements.

Factory 54r ammo before.


Examples after Mexican Matching.


I also used the pulled surplus 147 and 187 gr. FMJ's to load plinker ammo for my SKS rifles I used 150 gr. load data from the Lee manual for the 147 bullets and on the 187 gr. FMJ's I ended up with a load of 18.0 grs. of Reloader #7 all loads cycles fine through several differ version of SKS rifles and accuracy was as good as any commercial Russian ammo although the 187 gr. load dropped like a rock at 100 yds due to low MV in the 1700 fps range,but a rear sight adjustment will fix that. The 147 gr. loads pretty much mimic Russian 154 gr. factory ammo as far as performance. I have a friend that shoot nothing but surplus 149 gr. steel core FMJ pulls out of his AK-47.

Pulled surplus bullets,both bullet are seated and crimped with the Lee FCD at 2.200" in my X39 cases.


I also shoot the same Lee .312 TL 165. gr. gas checked cast bullet which actually drops closer to .314 in both my SKS and Mosin rifles.


Engel Ballistics 220 gr. Subsonic Jackhammer rd. http://www.ebr-inc.net/762x39JackhammerSubsonic.html

[RayinNH]

I don't feel safe using said bullet with so much extra surface area under "god-only-knows" case pressure when fired.

If you look at the picture there really isn't that much extra surface area. By surface area I mean that which actually touches the bore...Ray

[Larry Gibson]

res45

Both of those cases convert very easily to LR boxer primers and are very reloadable. Take a look at my "sticky" on converting berdan to boxer primers for the info. Any questions don't hesitate to ask.

Larry Gibson

[res45]

res45

Both of those cases convert very easily to LR boxer primers and are very reloadable. Take a look at my "sticky" on converting berdan to boxer primers for the info. Any questions don't hesitate to ask.

Larry Gibson

Thanks I PDF'ed the sticky for future reference,I'll have to get or borrow a primer pocket swager to try the conversions. I have about 400 rds. of Bulgarian and 200 rds. of Yugo berdan primed brass I just don't want to toss when I shoot it it. Although I've never dissected one I believe both the Bulgarian and Yugo ammo both use the Larger .250 berdan primer.

I also just picked up a 440 rd. tin of steel case factory 188 73 vintage 54r ammo and it appears that the primer is much smaller in dia. these may also make a good candidate for my little 90 gr. .314 plinker rds.

[KaliforniaRebel]

res45, thanks for the feedback. This information provides me with a reason to give the idea a second chance.

I thought about alternate powders for the job, but went with H4895 for the slower (and safer) burn rate. Just looking at the charts, the 150 gr FMJ is on the heavier side of the scale for an SKS.

I also wanted to ask if you have an idea on minimum OAL for that boat tail in the 7.62x39. I'm tempted to push it in just a bit further so I can actually load a magazine with them rather then by hand one at a time.....but common sense is telling me not to.

[res45]

I also wanted to ask if you have an idea on minimum OAL for that boat tail in the 7.62x39. I'm tempted to push it in just a bit further so I can actually load a magazine with them rather then by hand one at a time.....but common sense is telling me not to.

I don't have any of the 187 gr. BT bullets pulled at the moment that I can show you an side by side comparison of but I seated those bullets to 2.200" OAL that will fit the magazine with a little room to spare.

In general if it fits the magazine it should chamber fine without the ogive sticking into the lands,you can check that with a dummy rd. by coloring the ogive area of the bullet with a black sharpie and cycling it through the action,extract it carefully and see if there is any marks on the bullets ogive if it contacts the lands.

The throats on the SKS rifles at least the ones I have seem to be various generous and I've never had any problems loading heavier bullets for caliber out to magazine length. Any commercial 150 gr. SP bullet in .311 dia. I've tried shoots great in my Yugo and Chinese with the OAL set to 2.200". That would include Speer,Prvi Partizan,and Sierra



You might find this of interest although it doesn't give any OAL's for the bullets listed you can see that shooting bullets up to 240 grs. in the X39 cartridge has been done before.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/76239.html