throats in my .45

[45sixgun]

I've been working with my .45 Ruger NMBH Convertible. Accuracy was not what I get with my .44 so I started looking into it. I read that I needed to ream the throats, so I got a Manson reamer and reamed both cylinders. According to the paperwork this should have put the throats right at .452. I tried pushing some commercial cast bullets through but they wouldn't come close to going through even though the box said they were .452. Next I pushed some of the bullets through my Lee .452 sizing die. The bullets were on the larger side, but after sizing them they still wouldn't go through the throats. After reaming my accuracy seems a little improved, but I'm still getting tons of leading in the barrel. I just ordered a .451 sizing die, and I'm going to try that next. Has anyone had a similar experience? Any answers or suggestions? With my .44 Special the bullets go through the throats with a tiny bit of pressure. That gun is as accurate as I can shoot it. BTW, in case you can't tell, I'm new to handguns and reloading. Thanks.

[jandbn]

I would hold off on the .451 sizing die until you measure grove diameter of a slug with a micrometer. Then using the same micrometer, measure the as bought-size. Then measure one pushed through the die.

If the lead is hard, there may be spring back preventing a sized bullet to be pushed through the throat. It could aslo be that your sizer isn't actually the size marked. Start with the barrel measurement first and go from there.

[runfiverun]

depending on where the bbl leading is would clue you in as to where/what the problem truly is.
a tight spot where the bbl screws into the frame is common.
lead angle into the bbl could be too shallow also and is shaving some lead.
or it's a bit off center with the cylinder cocking the boolit in the bbl.
or it has a lip.
or...
then again it might not be the gun, you might just be blowing the lube out of the cylinder gap.

[subsonic]

It seems like I have heard this story before.

I ended up using a split rod to open my throats to .453", as the reamer only took them to .4515" and I could not chamber WFN style boolits, or 300gr xtps seated out to the bottom crimp groove.

The best thing for your leading, IME, is to keep shooting it to smooth out the barrel. Shoot gas checked or jacketed for a couple hundred rounds, clean out any copper and try again. Repeat as necessary or if you have a bad problem, fire lap.

My .45 Ruger has given me fits. The same combination that shot well before any modifications is also the same that shoots the best now. Cast Performance 335gr WLNGC over a heavy charge of H4227 or H110 with a CCI300 primer.

YMMV, but this combo is definitely worth a try.

[45sixgun]

depending on where the bbl leading is would clue you in as to where/what the problem truly is.

The leading is long streaks down the barrel, doesn't seem to be much at the forcing cone.

I ended up using a split rod to open my throats

What is a split rod? Never heard of one.

Jandbn, I already ordered the die, so I'll go ahead and try it. I don't have a way to slug the barrel at the moment, but I'll keep that in mind as something to try.

[Larry Gibson]

Accuracy was not what I get with my .44

[II read that I needed to ream the throats][/I]

There are lots of things that affect accuracy other than undersize throats. A couple years back it seems all revovler throats were over size. Now it seems they are all undersize. I have yet to ream a rvovlers throats and I've got numerous revovlers and have shot a whole buch of others over the years....all with very good accuracy and all without reaming any throats. Reaming throats may be a rare thing to do but it should be a last ditch measure with positively known undersize throats.

As to the leading in the barrel what is the alloy, the bullet, the lube and the load?

Larry Gibson

[45sixgun]

Larry, I'm not saying you're wrong. I've no experience at all next to yours. The way it was explained is that the small throats constrict the size of the bullet excessively which then prevents the full obturation needed for it to seal inside the barrel. It made sense to me. I also read that a properly matched bullet and throat would allow the bullet to go through with a slight push. That is exactly what happens in my .44 and in my .357.

[subsonic]

A plit rod is just what it sounds like. A piece of steel rod that has been split on one end. You catch the end of a piece of abrasive cloth in it and wind it around until it is the correct diameter to slip fit in the throat and then run it in a drill to open up the throats. Google it, as there is more to it than that, and if you don't know what you're doing and aren't careful, you could easily ruin your cylinder. I'm feeling too sleepy to type it all right now, and there is a bunch of stuff that google will find.

Before you open your throats anymore, unless you are having difficulty chambering, shoot it a bunch more. Also tell us what load in detail you are shooting.

[45sixgun]

Thanks, subsonic. I'll google it.

I'm shooting 9 grains of Unique and 250 grain RNFP, HSM brand. Using Federal primers and Starline brass. I've been shoving the same bullet into ACP cases I scrounged and 6 grains of Unique. I can't remember if I got the leading before I shot the ACP rounds. I guess I should test that issue.

[454PB]

I'd say you need to do some measurements before you alter the gun anymore.

You can measure the slug you pushed through the cylinder throats, and also the boolits pushed through the Lee sizer. I have a Lee sizer that's labeled .451", but actually sizes to .4515".

That said, I'm betting your having a lube failure. What lube are you using?

[MtGun44]

I am getting really concerned that there are a lot of folks that are just willy nilly
reaming their cylinders and don't even have much in the way of precision measuring
equipment or even much of a really clear idea why and what particular problem they
thing they will be solving.

I have reamed a BH but I had accurately measured the throats with pin gages and
had a specific problem to solve.

Bill

[45sixgun]

I am getting really concerned that there are a lot of folks that are just willy nilly
reaming their cylinders and don't even have much in the way of precision measuring
equipment or even much of a really clear idea why and what particular problem they
thing they will be solving. I have reamed a BH but I had accurately measured the throats with pin gages and had a specific problem to solve.

I have a clear problem: the bullets won't fit through the throats properly. So far I've used precise tools (Manson reamer) and highly recommended methods (using a properly sized bullet to test the throats). Can't afford a set of pin gauges, but they don't seem absolutely necessary.

[tek4260]

That commercial cast boolit and the hard lube used to survive shipping is probably the problem. Try tumbling some in Alox and see if the leading goes away. Are they bevel base by the way?

BTW, I have never seen a Manson reamer that wasn't the proper size.

[subsonic]

That commercial cast boolit and the hard lube used to survive shipping is probably the problem. Try tumbling some in Alox and see if the leading goes away. Are they bevel base by the way?

BTW, I have never seen a Manson reamer that wasn't the proper size.

Big +1 on most commercial "cheapy" boolits leading up my guns.

It is a fact that a .452" object will not pass through a .452" hole without substantial force. The reamer I used on my gun was like a door knob. Everybody had their turn. So maybe it was worn.

[btroj]

I did use the split rod with wet/dry paper and oil to enlarge the throats on my BH in 45 Colt. I did it after owning the gun for a year or two and finding it tended to lead in the forcing come with almost every load.
I was sizing to .452 and the bullets were not even close to fitting thru the throats. I drove a bullet thru and it measured .449.
I opened the throats until a .452 bullets would barely fit thru with a bit of force.
I don't get the leading any more, accuracy is better too.

Like some have said, don't modify the fun unless the fun requires it. This idea that you must ream the throats right off is silly. I did mine because the gun needed it. I didn't see a way to get it to shoot well otherwise. I fel that shooting about 1 K thru it over a few years was a good test.

[Char-Gar]

Several thoughts come to mind on the subject at hand.

1. Don't start cutting on a pistol, until you have measured the throats and know what you have.
2. Don't try and determine the size of the throats, either before or after cutting with commercial cast bullets, or even soft lead slugs for that matter. Cast bullets, even after sizing are very seldom 100% round.
3. Do your measuring with either a machinest hole guage and micrometer or pin guages.
4. There are very few commercial cast bullets worth the purchase price. Most are too hard,with worthless wax lube.
5. You leading issues has good probablity of coming from your bullets and not your pistol.

[Char-Gar]

I am getting really concerned that there are a lot of folks that are just willy nilly
reaming their cylinders and don't even have much in the way of precision measuring
equipment or even much of a really clear idea why and what particular problem they
thing they will be solving.

I have reamed a BH but I had accurately measured the throats with pin gages and
had a specific problem to solve.

Bill

Bill, we have a gin-u-wine fad going on. Fads of any kind never had much reason to them, just follow the pack in the way it seems to be going. There are lots of screwed up sixguns out there and most of them will make their way into the used market, so caveat emptor.

[subsonic]

Yes, the fad that Ruger uses reamers for as long as possible to save cost because most folks:
A. Shoot a box or two and put the gun away.
B. Shoot a bunch of jacketed for every cast boolit.
C. Can't tell if a handgun is accurate, but all of them can tell if the price goes up $20.

There must be a full moon or nothing on the internet tonight.

I have pin gauges. I have a micrometer. I know how to use both of them. I have owned Rugers and Smith an Wessons that are good out of the box and jacked up out of the box. I'm not sure why, but Ruger seems to do a slipshod job on .45 revolvers and a pretty fair job on .44 maggies.

My best advice is to buy .44 Rugers or plan on overhauling the .45s.

[Char-Gar]

Subsonic...How long has it been since you bought a new Ruger 45 SA?

[subsonic]

It was about 10 years ago, when the Accu-Sports were first coming out.

After the issues I had with that one, I am not in a hurry to buy another.
I did just buy a SBH last fall and it measures .431" all around with two chambers tight on that pin gauge. But it has thread choke, a slightly rough bore, and a trigger that rivals a good Taurus. I have not shot it much yet, as it was a Christmas gift for my step son.