Black powder duplex loads?

[John Boy]

Chill, and let's not forget Harry Pope's 200yd offhand 100 shot record at Walnut Hill using his 33-40 rifle. Unfortunately, have never seen what his powder charge was accomplishing this feat

[45 2.1]

45 2.1”
Well, I did say I could not remember well and so you did cause me to go back and read one account. There are other accounts. Yes, there probably are. I believe the one I read was a narative by Rowland himself, but thats been quite awhile and I don't remember what book either. Seems like it was consecutive days IIRC. That will be for another day.
Check out the two * lines near the bottom.
Quoting some things from John Dutcher "Ballard, The Great American Single Shot".

---------------------------------------------------------------
Rowland's Record Group
Boulder, Colorado.
May 16, 1901
Rowland's record group was 10 consecutive shots into .722 of an inch at 200 yards.

The rifle was a muzzle-loaded .32-40 Pope/Ballard.
The duplex load was 3 grains No. 1 DuPont smokeless, 7 1/2 U.M.C. primers, with the rest of the case filled with Fg Hazard's black powder.
Bullets were cast 1-10 alloy. Bullets were weighed to a tenth-grain and primers were also weighed.
*Rowland shot the rifle from a Stevens/Pope machine rest.
*Dutcher also believes the target was made in one day.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All black has a place as does duplex and smokeless. I would hate to be without any of the three.

I'd have to agree on the powders also. Any is OK............

[45 2.1]

Thank you....I've studied the history now for around 50 years or so! But you see...I'm one of the OGANT......and don't care to do everything the 'easy way'!

I wouldn't expect anything otherwise. Just keep in mind that the narrow period of history your living was improved on, by the masters themselves. They didn't stand still. I doubt anyone here could match Pope or the others leaders in their field. There are improvements you could do within your area, but I don't see them talked about.

[RMulhern]

I wouldn't expect anything otherwise. Just keep in mind that the narrow period of history your living was improved on, by the masters themselves. They didn't stand still. I doubt anyone here could match Pope or the others leaders in their field. There are improvements you could do within your area, but I don't see them talked about.

"There are improvements you could do within your area, but I don't see them talked about."

You need to 'expound' upon that statement at length!

[45 2.1]

"There are improvements you could do within your area, but I don't see them talked about."

You need to 'expound' upon that statement at length!

OK, but you need to post the limits of where you'll go. I assume your trying to duplicate the long range international matches held at Seagirt and Bisley. Be specific on your use of naked and patched boolits.

[RMulhern]

OK, but you need to post the limits of where you'll go. I assume your trying to duplicate the long range international matches held at Seagirt and Bisley. Be specific on your use of naked and patched boolits.

I'm not trying to duplicate anything; rather I have probably shot some better groups over the years than the ODG did to my own satisfaction! I don't shoot GG bullets....only paper patch!

[Red River Rick]

.....................


RRR

[45 2.1]

I'm not trying to duplicate anything; rather I have probably shot some better groups over the years than the ODG did to my own satisfaction! I don't shoot GG bullets....only paper patch!

Since your happy with your groups, then you probably don't want to know anything else. Thats OK with me and no arguement. When you can make all the holes touch each other, maybe you'll be there.

[twildman]

From my reading of the older shooting literature, I beleive that the old timers understood "machine rest" to be pretty much what we would now recognize as bench-rest shooting, with mechanically adjustible rests, as opposed to a fixture that holds the gun without human contact, ie the Ransom Rest for handguns.

[RMulhern]

Since your happy with your groups, then you probably don't want to know anything else. Thats OK with me and no arguement. When you can make all the holes touch each other, maybe you'll be there.

Well I really don't need ALL the holes to touch; maybe only 4 like here from 1000 yds.!


10shots by Sharps45 2 7/8, on Flickr

[Red River Rick]

Well................I don't think you could ask for anything better then that!

Nice shootin Rick............and without a DUPLEX Load..........RIGHT?

RRR

[Chill Wills]

Well I really don't need ALL the holes to touch; maybe only 4 like here from 1000 yds.!

MAN! that is some good shooting! A guy that can shoot that well really shoud shoot some Creedmoor matches some time!

I know, lots of good reasons not to....
Nice shooting!

[Lead pot]

You cant stay on a target like Ricks at that range using 10 different sizes of sizing dies to get a bullet to fit and using teflon tape, masking tape and ground up pop corn for fillers because the recoil is to rough for you and no need for duplexing.
Just use the right bullet out of a mould of good quality that is the proper length and diameter and you will get that job done using the real good quality black powder.

[RMulhern]

Well................I don't think you could ask for anything better then that!

Nice shootin Rick............and without a DUPLEX Load..........RIGHT?

RRR

No duplex!

[RMulhern]

MAN! that is some good shooting! A guy that can shoot that well really shoud shoot some Creedmoor matches some time!

I know, lots of good reasons not to....
Nice shooting!

No sir....I got the competition sting outa my system a long time ago in NRA HP and shooting with the Army Team! I only have to drive 500 yards to shoot 1000 yards...or more and I don't have to prove anything to anyone other than myself! I'll be 72 come March and my endeavor these days is to convey my shooting knowledge to my grandkids which are all interested! Some are already asking about when can they shoot the BIG RIFLE?? I'll just close by saying "THESE RIFLES ARE A HOOT TO SHOOT!"

[Larry Gibson]

RMulhern

You're confusing 45 2.1 with facts.....how can he do his "I'm the master, you're the grasshopper" routine when you post shooting like that

Larry Gibson

[RMulhern]

RMulhern

You're confusing 45 2.1 with facts.....how can he do his "I'm the master, you're the grasshopper" routine when you post shooting like that

Larry Gibson

Larry

If you'll look closely at that target you'll see that it's a 98! The inner plate is 20" in diameter...same size as the 10 ring on the Creedmoor paper target. There's one hit that just 'scratched' the 10 ring plate at the 2 o/clock area...then glanced off into what would be the 9 ring. This was shot with my 50 2 1/2 using 720 gr. cast bullets. That day I was just testing the vertical of the load. Had about a 8-12 mph wind from the 9 o/clock side but I didn't add any windage as I was just interested in seeing the vertical deviation. The best I have been able to shoot at this distance with the 45 2 7/8 is a 97. There are probably many LR shooters within the ranks of BPCR Creedmoor shooting that can do this so as far as I'm concerned....the target isn't a reflection of my shooting abiliity; rather it's a testimony to those that believe that paper patch bullets aren't accurate....of which I was one....at one time!! What's REALLY A HOOT...is that I can position my spotting scope when I'm shooting prone off my shoulder...and at the shot roll over....look through the scope and watch the slug slam into the target!! THAT'S A HOOT!!

[Larry Gibson]

Darn fine shooting!!!! Absolutely no doubt about that!

Larry Gibson

[45 2.1]

Not too bad for a charcoal burner.......... about 1.3 MOA at long range. Since you say you use bull barrels and like 34" ones, i'd say thats a heavy rifle... nice and comfortable to shoot..... and a Hoot at that. Not much different results than some of the jornals of the buffalo hunters. Anyway its good shooting providing you count all your shots, not just 4. Way to much of that kind of thing nowadays anyway.

If Larry Gibson could can and sell his sarcasm, he would be rich. Trouble is no one buys it.

[MT Chambers]

The gen. rec. formula is 10% 4759 and 90% Black Powder....My use shows that it is much cleaner burning, requiring much less cleaning while shooting, up to 100 fps more, more noise and recoil. In my testing over the years, I can't say that it has averaged any better accuracy, and you still have to clean your gun when you're done, and no need for a blow tube. Your results may vary!