.35-06 Handi-Rifle

[Marlin Junky]

Bass,

What do you think about this boolit for the long throated Whelen? It holds about a half grain of lube. There's no crimp groove because this design is basically for a single shot. However, the case mouth lands about 1/16" above the top of the lube groove, so I suppose the boolit could be "Lee Factory Crimped" into place (after having Lee custom make a Whelen FC die).

MJ

[Bass Ackward]

Bass,

What do you think about this boolit for the long throated Whelen? It holds about a half grain of lube. There's no crimp groove because this design is basically for a single shot. However, the case mouth lands about 1/16" above the top of the lube groove, so I suppose the boolit could be "Lee Factory Crimped" into place (after having Lee custom make a Whelen FC die).

MJ

MJ,

Oh Boy. Well here is the truth. (as I see it) Sorry, but you did ask.

I would not select a design like this for the following reasons.

The biggest one is that balance point of the bullet will be too far forward when employing a marginal twist rate. If you had a 12 twist here, you would have more options. The easiest bullet to stabilize is one that has the weight or balance point towards the back. And the farther back you can get it, the easier it is to stabilize meaning that it will stabilize to a lower velocity. That is one reason bore riders or Keith semi wadcutters are so popular. And why the 265 grain I sent you looked like it did.

A good reason for having sooo wide of a band is that you have a super fast twist or low rifling height and you need lead to make drive contact to it. None of this fits your situation really.

And unless you want to use LLA, the farther up the bullet you can get lube, the less of it you eventually need for HV use. Just because a groove is there, doesn't mean it has to be filled. And this design will probably require a harder mix to achieve the same velocity.

But there are a lot of guys out there running 16 twist Remingtons, maybe you can ask Bill (Curmedgeon) if he has found a weight limit and what he uses. Send him a PM and ask his opinion.

[Nueces]

Someone near the beginning of this thread asked about availability of Lyman's discontinued 3589, a round-nosed GC at 290 grains. A nearly new two-cavity just went on eBay for nearly $145, including shipping. Jeez, these six-banger Lee GBs just look better and better!

I used to dream of owning enough large H&Gs to keep me in lead jewelry. Thanks to y'all sharing your expertise with the Lees, I'm going to set aside a wad of retirement cash and tag along on GBs instead.

Joining this board has been a revelation for me. Unlike a LOT of other 'net activities, this one has inspired me to 'unseat' and go out to the shop a number of times. As good as it gets, methinks.

Mark

[Marlin Junky]

Bass,

Thank you for the input. In this design's defense:

It weighs only 250 grains, has nearly 75% bearing surface, a 60% meplat, I have enough materials to make all kinds of hard lube and I designed it to double the speed of sound... or better. I can shorten the nose and tighten up the radius on the ogive a little but I'm not going to put lube grooves (filled or otherwise) ahead of the case mouth that detract from the volume of lube contained in the neck. This design holds about a half grain of lube... which may or may not be located in the right place. Do you think the long .361" section just ahead of the lube groove is going to create a leading problem? Are you saying this design isn't worth a $75 gamble?

What does LLA stand for?

Regards,
MJ

[Bass Ackward]

Bass,

Thank you for the input. In this design's defense:

What does LLA stand for?

Are you saying this design isn't worth a $75 gamble?

Regards,
MJ

Don,

When you deal with twist rates extremes on the slow end for a particular caliber, you just never know. You can fit a bullet up perfectly and still not know for sure.

Look at the 44 Mag guys using 38 twists that according to most formulas won't stabilize any 300 grain bullet. Then along comes a guy that braggs about the accuracy he is getting with some 300 grainer with a barn door for a meplat.

I have two 44 Mags with 38 twists that are measured 38 twists. One will .... and one won't. Same bore sizes in both cases. One prefers semi wadcutters and the other won't shoot them for crap.

That's the hole thing in a nut shell. And in the end, success will come down to how you fit it up and then plain ol trial and error.

LLA is Lee Liquid Alox.

If you go ahead with this, you should follow up and let us know what happened for future reference. You can always sell the mold to someone else if it fails with your 16 twist. Lots of 35 guys around.

[Marlin Junky]

Bass,

I went ahead and ordered the mold. The boolit is 1" long and holds a half grain plus of lube. I splurged this time and went with an iron block. Here's the final drawing submitted to Dan which is not much different than the one above but I did shorten the front band to .300". The meplat is still 60% but the radius ogive is now approaching an inch (.987"). The bearing length is 74%.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

I finally gave my new SAECO 352 (cut on Redding's new tooling) a whirl tonight and beagled it drops very nice .3605" to .361" boolits that weigh 244 grains in BHN 14 to 15 metal. Yeah, they don't really fit the H-R Whelen, but I'm going to try them out this Thursday seated way out to touch the rifling with 55 grains of DP85 (Ramshot Hunter) and either Fed 215's or WLRM's. This means the lube is outside the case but it'll be a while before my Whelen will be digesting MM-35-250-GC's.

MJ

[2row]

I see said the blind man I think WW metal is too hard for this

[Marlin Junky]

I pulled the plug on the .35W H-R today. Groups with 250 grain Speers were not very good (though the rounds chrono'd well) and the extractor stopped extracting after 17 rounds loaded in brand new .35 Whelen headstamped Remington cases. I'll probably send the action to MA or CT (wherever the heck H-R is located) for a 45-70 barrel.

MJ