Dragoon?

[Ragnarok]

I bought a used Uberti made third model Dragoon revolver a month or so back.
The revolver is in excellent condition condition..maybe unfired before I bought it.

I first fired it with .451 diameter balls I keep for my other BP revolvers..a bit small..the .451 balls would squeeze into the chambers with just a bit of resistance and no peeling a ring of lead...So I buy myself some .454 and .457 lead balls. I try these..the .454 are about like the .451 balls..just squeeze in..no lead peeling..the .457 balls will shave a thin lead ring..I figure these balls will be suitable for the rather large Dragoon. My question being..are there any standard size balls reccomended for these revolvers?..online sources seem to reccomend the .457..but these seem barely adequate as far as peeling a ring of lead.

Nipples...Dragoon nipples..more specificaly Uberti Dragoon nipples...My nipples are small!!

I bought some CCI #10 caps..these still fit too loose on my new Dragoon. Just pinching them a bit to fit makes me nervous. I made a 'sizing plate' which is a thin steel plate with a slightly tapered hole in it to push my caps into to size the mouth down a bit to fit. This chore is a pain in the rear..

I've used RWS #10 caps in the past..but cannot find them anywhere lately. Who else makes #10 caps I might be able to find and try?

Thanx..Rag

[Alan]

Both my Uberti 2nd Models need .457 balls to seal well. The barest ring of lead shaved is plenty. Get yourself some cheap diagonal cutters, and drill out the cutting edge to make a crimp tool for the caps. much faster than pushing them into a hole. crimp just behind the mouth of the cap. Don't remember the drill bit size, but I think I saw this trick posted here or on longrifles. You could search for it.

Alan

[Ragnarok]

Thanx for the info..

I'll see if I can make a 'wire cutter sizer'...I've got some old wire-cutters around here somewhere. Got some crappy old snap ring pliers here too...might be easier to drill a hole in.

That's a good idea!..Thanks.

I do wish the Italians could figure out nipple size..I own a stainless Pietta 1858 Rem-clone..and #11 caps fit fairly decent..a 'Navy Arms' 1851 .44 that I replaced the nipples in(Italian replacements I think)..and nothing fits it well..and a Pietta .36 Navy that #10 caps fit perfectly.

Be a lot easier if the factorys would just standardize on the #11 cap..but I guess that would take some of the fun out of it.

[Maven]

Ragnarok, Two suggestions: (1) Try Track of the Wolf for Uberti replacement nipples for #11 caps: http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(5cq...t))/index.aspx (2) If you purchase, a .457" RB mold, a Lee Precision mold, for example, there's a good chance that it will cast slightly larger than the nominal diameter when using pure lead.

[StrawHat]

I recall someone using wire stripping pliers as a resizing tool for caps. I don't remember if one of the standard holes was correct or if they needed to be enlarged.

[Ragnarok]

I recall someone using wire stripping pliers as a resizing tool for caps. I don't remember if one of the standard holes was correct or if they needed to be enlarged.

I had thought of this..after the seed was planted in my mind of some sort of plier type cap sizer.

Wirestrippers being made of sheet metal..and having holes already..would be maybe easy to take a die-grinder and appropriate carbide shape and open a hole up to the needed size.

Nuther 'Dragoon topic'...Bullets. The rather large Dragoon revolvers have a large powder capacity compared to my other BP revolvers. I can see where a conical bullet would be more useable with my new huge repeating hand-musket.

Are there any molds designed specificaly for a front-stuffing revolver bullet besides the original pointy/short bullets?

I keep thinking a 230gr roundnose..similiar to what I produce for .45acp. And have resisted to urge to try my .452 230gr slugs in the Dragoon.

Why not try my home-cast 230gr?...They wouldn't probably shave lead..but I believe they would be tight enough to stay put..the .451 balls did...or would the heavier mass of the 230gr slugs ccause them to jump forward under recoil?

[Alan]

George Nonte used Lyman 454424's and 30 gr, as I recall. I just fill up the extra space w/ more 2f. 8D I would guess that ANY pure lead 45 pistol bullet ~450-454ish could be made to work. I would strongly recommend the use of 2f to reduce pressures. In Keith's Sixguns, he said the old-timers considered 3F a .31 and smaller powder.

[Flinchrock]

Ragnarok, Two suggestions: (1) Try Track of the Wolf for Uberti replacement nipples for #11 caps: http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(5cq...t))/index.aspx (2) If you purchase, a .457" RB mold, a Lee Precision mold, for example, there's a good chance that it will cast slightly larger than the nominal diameter when using pure lead.

Get better nipples(cones),,,its easier. Lee mold, I dunno,,,I've got 4 of them, not a durn one them of throws a round roundball,,,by as much as .005.

[Ragnarok]

I would like a nice conical mold..but have not really looked to see what's available for .44 percussian revolvers requiring .457 bullits.

[Maven]

Ragnarok, Take a look at this Lee mold: http://leeprecision.com/xcart/MOLD-D-C-456-220-1R.html

[45-70 Ranger]

Ragnarok,

The only multiple dischage I ever had was with my old ASM 2nd Mod Dragoon. The nipples are smaller than my other weapons, and thus when I had a Rem #11 pinched into place, the weapon fired three rounds with one trigger pull. That was in 1969. I got smaller caps and that never happened again....But that being said, in my area the only caps one can find are CCI #11 or #10 and they do not fit my weapon well. The old RWS caps were just right, but like you, cannot find them locally.

I tried some conicals in my Dragoon, but found that they hit so high it was just plain a waste of lead on my part. Used Lee .450" , the Lee .457", and Lyman 230 gr. RN I used for my .45ACP (don't recall the mould number) . They all shot without any problems. Just so darn high I abandoned the use of conicals in all my BP revolvers. I simply get far better accruacy with RB loads.

Good luck with your bigboy! I love the Dragoon pistols and I know you will too.

Wade

[Ragnarok]

Mine hits somewhat high with round balls.

I had thought about getting some under ball lubed wads..mainly to see if a reduced charge would lower the point of impact a bit.

Seriously!..The Dragoon is dead on at like 75 yards with 40 or 45grains of powder...normal pistol shot range it's high.

I will say the windage is good..and the gun is such a nice looking piece..I ain't going to monkey around with the sights. I can live with shooting slightly high.

I can also say that this is the best Colt clone percussian revolver I've ever owned...most are barely servicable junk. I've had brandnew revolvers of the Colt pattern that needed serious work right out of the box. I think this Dragoon clone was made in about 2006 or so(by the Italian letter code)..I own a 4 3/4" .45 SAA Uberti clone from the early 2000's and it's a really good gun too. Would seem Uberti has seriously upped the quality of the stuff they pump out.

[Flinchrock]

Mine hits somewhat high with round balls.

I had thought about getting some under ball lubed wads..mainly to see if a reduced charge would lower the point of impact a bit.

Seriously!..The Dragoon is dead on at like 75 yards with 40 or 45grains of powder...normal pistol shot range it's high.

I will say the windage is good..and the gun is such a nice looking piece..I ain't going to monkey around with the sights. I can live with shooting slightly high.

I can also say that this is the best Colt clone percussian revolver I've ever owned...most are barely servicable junk. I've had brandnew revolvers of the Colt pattern that needed serious work right out of the box. I think this Dragoon clone was made in about 2006 or so(by the Italian letter code)..I own a 4 3/4" .45 SAA Uberti clone from the early 2000's and it's a really good gun too. Would seem Uberti has seriously upped the quality of the stuff they pump out.

Your dragoon is sighted just like the originals,,,they were designed to be a long range pistol, once you know how it hits you just compensate your p.o.a.

I have a Whitneyville From Cimmarron, And the fit and finish is beautiful right out of the box. Even the trigger is pretty good. Uberti is making some pretty nice stuff!
Go on over to The Muzzleloading Forum and do a search in the handgun section, you will find a lot of information there!

Good luck with that big sucker, once you get it tweaked a little you will be ringing bells at 100 yds plus! Enjoy!

Oh,,,as a side note, the ampco nipples from T.O.W. fit a #11 remington cap PERFECTLY and mine shoots a little tighter using 2f swiss than it does with 3f swiss.

[45-70 Ranger]

The idea of making a cap crimping tool was interesting. I went to the local hardware store and got a small nipper. With the tool being about 5" long and the blade being only 3/4" wide, it was a snap to center the blade and drill. I drilled it out then polished it to be undersized of a CCI #11 and was a might too tight. (planned that as you cannot put metal back!). Polished it out a bit more and the fit after crimping was perfect. I placed the caps with the open end pointing up on a flat board. Set the crimping tool on the cap. Closed it up and opened to find that the cap would fall loose about 75% of the time. A light tap on the board would make the cap come out of the tool if they hung up. Test firing was a joy as they went right from the capper to the weapon without a hitch. Great idea guys, thanks. Never thought of crimping the caps! I'd include a pic of the tool but have no idea how to do that here. I'm a gunsmith, not a computer tech!

Wade

[Ragnarok]

I tried to shoot a coyote yesterday with my Dragoon...The yote was trotting along about 125 yds off with his nose to the ground.

First shot went low..and got him running..all subsequent shots were in the ball-park..but all over the ball-park! No..didn't hit him.

I then got an old paint can..and tried some 100yd shooting with the Dragoon...couldn't hit the paint can either. So I got an old 7 gallon bucket(the tall ones)...I can hit that at 100 paces.

What did I learn yesterday, you might ask?....Nothing!..But I did shoot my Dragoon revolver a bunch of times.

I guess I did learn that TC foaming bore cleaner works pretty good on revolvers I guess...pretty messy though.

[StrawHat]

Dragoon sights are a bit crude to say the least. The V notch and barleycorn front leave a lot to be desired. A bit of judicious file work can clean up the rear sight and a good fore sight can be dovetailed to the barrel. Both will improve the sight picture and your long range shooting.

[Mk42gunner]

Remington #10 caps are slightly smaller than CCI #10 caps; and work better with most of my cap & ball Colt clones, in my experience.

Robert

[Dan Cash]

I would like a nice conical mold..but have not really looked to see what's available for .44 percussian revolvers requiring .457 bullits.

Pick a .45 pistol bullet that fits your fancy, cast it in pure lead and pan lube it then shoot it as cast. use sufficient powder that will require compression of the charge. By compressing the charge with the soft lead bullet, you will swage the bullet to fit the chamber and effect a proper seal. This does not work with BP cartridges but sure works well for me in my Ruger Old Armies and in an old Colt clone .

[Omnivore]

I second the suggestion to get Treso/Ampco nipples.

Lee mold, I dunno,,,I've got 4 of them, not a durn one them of throws a round roundball,,,by as much as .005.

Have you measured the factory swaged balls?

I also second the Lee conical mold suggestion. The Lee bullet has a smaller shoulder, or heel, at the base that makes them far easier to load-- much like 1860s period conicals. Buffalo BallEts are good too, if you can find them, but they'll cost ya. They also have a heel base, they have a slightly hollow base also, and they fit the shape of the bullet ram in the gun, meaning they won't deform so much on loading. I've been getting higher velocity with 180 grain BallEts than with the lighter round ball, using the same powder charge, in my '58 Remington. I'll leave it up to you to speculate why, but I've double checked it side by side with round ball and it's true.

Lee also makes a heel-base conical mold for the .36s.

Buffalo Arms in Ponderey, Idaho sells a heel-base conical mold for .44 cap and ball guns also. Haven't tried that one because it's so expensive. I and others have had good results with the Lee conical mold(s). They make two sizes for .44s-- the smaller one fits My Pietta .44s just right, but the Uberti with its slightly larger chambers may prefer the larger one.