303 british reloading

[bighoss]

i am trying to fig out what powder load to use i just got some 115 grain cast bullets and iam trying to see what powder load to use for them ya i know 115 grain but that is the only size i could fine in .313 i have hodgons h 4895 i dont know if i can use that if i can what load should i go with i know for the 123 grain jacketed bullets i was useing 38 grains of powder i reason i aint use the 123 grain jacketed bullets is that they say .310 but they mic at like 308 .309 and they dont shoot worth a darn

[dualsport]

Do a search for "The Load" and also .303 light loads. With that light boolit you'll probably want a light charge of fast powder. Like a fast pistol powder or shotgun powder.

[Phat Man Mike]

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/...ad.php?t=13425

I'd start here and go on. IMHO

[longbow]

If you haven't done this yet, you should slug your throat and use cast boolit of that size or just enough smaller to chamber.

In my experience, most military .303 bores run large. My 3 are all 0.313"/0.314" and like a 0.315" boolit.

Also, the chambers are considerably oversize so I neck size brass only to minimize working the brass.

Last outing we were shooting the NOE 0.314" x 129 gr. (lapped out to cast 0.316") over 10 gr. 700X. This was a much more energetic load than I anticipated ~ it made a real CRACK ~ but worked well and gave pretty good accuracy. Cheap on powder and cheap on lead.

I have tried some slower pistol powders with this light boolit but so far this has been the best load for accuracy.

I think that with such a light boolit you will want a relatively fast pistol of shotgun powder.

As mentioned, "The Load" is probably a good place to start but you should also get the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook if you don't have it.

If you are looking for moulds/boolits for .303 look here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=107545

That first link is an excellent boolit in my .303's so keep an eye open as NOE always makes a few extras for sale and this one should be done about now.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=118144
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=93293
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=129569
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=129155
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=104133
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=126367

Longbow

[303Guy]

What rifle is it? Is it two-groove or or five? I'm guessing it's not a two-groove cause I think that would have a chance with those 125 jacketed at .308. Maybe not - I haven't tried.

How do those 115's fit in the muzzle?

[Cerberus]

I have been using 3130 for my 303 British loads. So far, so good. I have recently started using cast bullets through mine, been using a flatpoint originally desinged for the 30-30, Ranch Dog TLC-311-165-RF.

[longbow]

I am surprised that a 0.311" boolit works for you in a .303. It must either cast large or you have a tight bore... or maybe a bit of both.

[Multigunner]

My 1915 SMLE has the only .311 bore I've ever found on an Enfield.
The actual specs for the Enfield bores are a .303 Minor with groove depth running from .005 to .008. This would mean that to stay within acceptable specs the major diameter could be up to .319. Bores of .313 and .314 are about optimal for milspec .303 ammunition, the open base of the FMJ and initial shock delivered by Cordite working to fill out the grooves, while the over the charge card wad acted as an ablative seal to reduce blowby for the critical first few inches of bullet travel.
Bores could still pass muster if they gauged at no more than .307 minor so long as they remained reasonably accurate and showed no sign of tendency to keyhole during testing at short ranges (no elongated bullet holes in the target).

With the right load any bore that shows even a trace of rifling can be made to shoot with reasonable accuracy, at least to the 100 yard mark. It may take a lifetime to find that magic combination though, or it might be the first one you try.

PS
Older SMLE barrels were reverse taper lapped for use with the MkVI ammunition. The purpose of this lapping was to reduce bullet friction so the velocity from the shorter barrel would be closer to the velocity from the much longer LE barrels to maintain maximum effective range in volley firing.
This worked , but could adversely affect accuracy.
Reverse taper bores with major diameters at the muzzle of up to .321 have been reported. A replacement barrel without the lapping was authorised in 1917.
A couple of owners of WW2 era BSA rebuilt SMLE rifles have reported bores that seem to match the dimensions of the old reverse taper barrels. Its possible some of those barrels remained in strategic stores and were used in rebuilds.

Lee Metford rifled bores are closer to the commercial specs for the .303.

Oversized bores were common for early smokeless era rifles, many because Cupro-Nickel fouling was near impossible to remove in the field and could build up to the point where it constricted the bore of a rifle with a tighter commercial spec bore.

[bighoss]

mine is a 1944 #4 mark 1 does any one know if 25-30 grains of the h 4895 will will for 115 grain cast boolit as in enough to cover the flash hole and not melt the boolit the boolit is not all lead it 92% lead 6% tin and 2% antion or something like that

[longbow]

Well, the load should be safe to shoot based on H4895 load data here:

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

However, it is a light load and under a very light boolit so may not perform well. I have not used much 4895 and then under heavier boolits in .303.

If the groove diameter is larger than your 0.313" boolit, you will likely get gas cutting and leading.

You should be using a harder lead alloy like clip on wheelweights at 4 to 6% anitmony as well.

I find my .303 with 1:10" twist rifling is hard on boolits that are soft alloy so oven heat treat. The harder boolits shoot very well.

From your posts I have to assume you are inexperienced at reloading. Do some research and learn before reloading. I know you are asking questions here which is good but you should use published (or known to be safe) reloading data to start.

If you do not have a reloading manual there is lots of information at the powder manufacturer's sites (Hodgdon, Alliant, Accurate, etc.). Better is to get the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook which lists loads specifically for cast boolits.

I hope that helps.

Longbow

[bighoss]

i have reloaded before but not with cast boolits just fmj thats why i have asking about the loads for cast boolits

[Larry Gibson]

i have reloaded before but not with cast boolits just fmj thats why i have asking about the loads for cast boolits

I responded with a suggestion on the 4895 thread.

Larry Gibson

[303Guy]

Bores could still pass muster if they gauged at no more than .307 minor ...

I have one that measures .308! Groove is .318/.319 (hard to measure). Actually, I have three with large bores but that one was made that way while the other two weren't (one got rusted larger and the other got worn larger). It's not a bad thing for reloaders but boolit selection is tricky. Well, not really cause 303 Brits have large throats anyway - unless it's a two-groove but then they have deep grooves (both of mine do anyway).

The good thing about the large throat and often deep grooves is that a boolit that does not require sizing the neck can be used. (Easy for me to say - I make my own molds!)

[Larry Gibson]

Awe, some of guys assume all .303s are Smellys. Mine is a Ross MK 10 and it's groove depth is .311

Larry Gibson

[bighoss]

whats bad i dont even know what my groove depth is

[longbow]

You can easily slug the throat and get that diameter. The boolit should be just enough smaller to chamber.

The throats in mine are all about 0.315"+ and all like a 0.315" boolit.

At least that is how I got my .303's to shoot cast boolits. "J" bullets seem to tolerate the large groove diameter and give reasonable accuracy but not cast.

I had some factory Federal loads that gave poor accuracy so I pulled bullets and mic'd them at 0.311". I decided to knurl then to 0.313" then lube and reseat. That gave very good accuracy. Yup, mine have fat bores that like fat bullets/boolits.

If Larry has given you a load using H4895 he won't steer you wrong.

Start there with a good fitting boolit and you are off to the races.

Longbow

[Coote]

Hi. This is my first post at this site. I'm not new to shooting, but I have had very little experience with cast projectiles. Thanks for being here.

In response to the opening question, I have been experimenting with subsonic loads for my .308. I found that 7.5 grains of Trail Boss powder drove some Lee 160 grain boolits at around 1060 fps. This was out of a 19" .308 barrel. I have also chronographed some 150 grain store-bought jacketed .303 Br projectiles that I shot from my 20" No 4. These travel at around 1050 fps with just 9 grains of Trail Boss. I'm really liking this powder so far. You may get different results with your rifle and measuring gear of course, so I guess I should add the usual warning that low-powered projectiles may stick in the bore although it hasn't happened to me yet.

I've just pulled my sporterized Lee Enfield No 4 two-groove out of storage and I'm thinking of using it exclusively with lead boolits. The bore is shiny and looks great.

I recently slugged the bore at both ends. I am competent with a micrometer, but I am not sure if my slugging procedure is correct, especially when I consider the measurements I got. Anyway.... I drove in a lead ball with an aluminium punch, then tapped it out gently with my cleaning rod.

Across the lands the bore was 0.305". Across the grooves it measured a tad over 0.321"

I'm really only interested in subsonic loads at present, and I'm hoping that a charge of Trail Boss will thump the boolit hard enough to upset it and force the lead nicely into those deep grooves.

I want to end up with some effective, slow boolits for hunting. So maybe I will have to use hollow points.... or paper patched soft lead projectiles. But all this is new to me and I will need to experiment.

I'd be interested to read any comments you'd care to make. Thanks in advance.

Best wishes from Nelson, New Zealand.... Coote.

[303Guy]

Welcome aboard Coote.

Mmmm .... I have a mint bore two-groove No4. I have a 'rust textured' bore two-groove No4 too which is scary accurate with j-words (jacketed bullets) and .310 ones at that.

Here's what the inside looks like.
That's after fire-lapping!

No good for cast.
This was paper patched.

You can see how the boolit 'shears' into the rifling driving face. However, the mint bore is like what you have so we could have some fun!

Both my two-grooves have an interesting throat which is simply a gradual taper from the chamber into the bore. It's the oversize grooves that pose a bit of the problem with cast in that to fill that groove means the rest of the boolit is going to get swaged somewhat. Of course, a generous groove has no detrimental effect on j-words.

Awe, some of guys assume all .303s are Smellys. Mine is a Ross MK 10 ....

I did just assume it but never mind that, I'm envious!

... melt the boolit the boolit ...

That won't happen, no. Not inside the barrel anyway.

[Coote]

Thanks .303Guy. All interesting information. Dang, that barrel of yours was rusty .

I don't have a mould for my .303 yet, but a generous enthusiast is about to post me some projectiles to try. If I can get any of his grease-grooved boolits to work well, then I'll try to get an identical mould.

I do have a Lee mould that casts 160 grain .309 boolits. I guess I could try paper patching these for the old three-oh if I become desperate. Or I could make a mould like you have.... although I don't really have the gear at home to make a good job of this.

This is a great web site.

[caseyboy]

If your groove diameter is truly 0.321" it would seem to me that you are in the 8mm territory. I believe Lee makes an 8mm/0.323" mould that could work out quite nicely.

Mike