Do Different Primers Make That Big A Deal?

[metweezer]

I am referring to small pistol primers. Does it make that big a difference to use CCI, Winchester, Federal, etc? This is for my 9mm's. I can understand needing so many different powders for your loads but primers too? I'd like to use just CCI small pistol primers.
Thanks, Steve

[Char-Gar]

The answer is yes, they can make a difference.

The current issue of Handloader Magazine (Oct. 2011) has an article by David Scovill on primers. He reproduces a chart of primers in handgun loads, done by Bob Hagel back in 1982. Though done 29 years ago, the information is still valid and helpful.

This would be a good read and helpful source of information on primers in handgun loads for those interested in the subject.

[Rocky Raab]

Changing primers alone can:

Increase pressures.

Decrease pressures.

Have no effect on pressures.

Increase velocity with raised pressure.

Decrease velocity with raised pressure.

Decrease velocity with lowered pressure.

Have no effect on velocity.

In summary, changing primers can have completely unpredictable results - and we didn't even touch upon accuracy.

[captaint]

Rocky pretty much summed it up. I do know that Federal SPP have softer cups. I have one revolver that needs the Federals to be 100% reliable. Just my experience. enjoy Mike

[Larry Gibson]

As noted, changing primers can affect numerous things including accuracy. However, how much of any change is the question and will there be a "practical" change that is discernable? With a 9mm hand gun shooting rapid shots off hand at IPSC, IDPA or B27 type targets at ranges of 0 - 20 maybe 25 yards you probably won't notice any difference whatso ever. That is if the load is safe and any change does not create a potentially over psi load. However, if you are shooting bullseye precision style out to 50 yards then a change in primers may adversely affect accuracy enough to be noticeable.

My standard 9mm load for years has been a 120 - 124 gr cast bullet over 4 gr Bullseye. I have used this load in mixed cases (milsurp & commercial) and with about every standard SP primer available. This load has given entirely excellent results in numerous different kinds of handguns and subguns. There have been no problems with accuracy or psi.

Conversley; with my serious social handloads for the 9mm I load them with max safe loads that were worked up with one set of components. I stick to that set of components, including primers, to avoid any potential problems with psi in an "awe shoot" situation. 100%+ reliability is the key there. At personal defense ranges accuracy is not a deciding factor in load selection for me. Functional reliability is the 1st priority and terminal effectiveness is the second priority.

With practice loads functioanl reliability is 1st priority and then accuracy. With the above 4 gr Bullseye load under a quality bullet I've never had a problem with either regardless of the primer make used. My preferred cast bullet for the 9mm these days is the Lee 356-120-TC BTW.

This all refers to th OPs question regarding primer changing in the 9mm. In other cartridges and firearms systems there can be a definate changes. However, I read hagel's article back in '82 and the recent Scovill article. They are interesting but i have to say I have tests that give just the opposite results. The reason is the different lots of powder, primers and bullets used. The biggest difference is in the firearm used. If accuracy is the name of the game then it's best to work up the load testing various different primers. If you have a quanity of primers of one make to use then work up the load with those. Quite frankly the only time primers made a significant difference in my tests were when I used a standard primer when a magnum primer should have been used or visa versa. Sometimes with some powders it made no real difference at all such as with 2400 powder under 240-250 gr bullets in a .44 Magnum. Like many things in shooting any difference will "depend".

Larry Gibson

[mdi]

Mr. Gibson confirmed my "ideas" on the subject. Thanks. I have used most primers available in So. CA to load for my .44s. For my shooting and loads, no difference was noted (mostly indoor 50', two handed, rested on bench. Mid range magnum loads with lead bullets). Lately I've been shooting outdoors at up to 50 yards, and most loads shoot better than I can, so accuracy testing is inconclusive...

[dverna]

LG

Great post and good common sense.

I use the same approach to reloading. "Plinking/Blasting" ammo has a different set of criteria than loads that are meant for "serious" work (target/hunting or SD) or loads running near maximum.

Don

[frank505]

The largest difference is in large pistol primers. The smallest happens to be small pistol and rifle. Be very careful in switching large pistol primers with out reducing the powder charge and working up, pressures can really jump.................................

[Chicken Thief]

http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_t..._reference.htm

[MtGun44]

Larry is right on.

Yes, all the things Rocky says are true.

BUT, for ordinary pistol shooting at moderate ranges. . . . . . gonna be hard to notice.

Rifles, longer range pistols, higher pressure magnum loads, match loads - well, these may
well find a noticable difference, and if you are trying to get best accy, realize that this
is a variable to pay attention to.

[bruce drake]

I primarily reload for target work so my focus is on accuracy and adding a different primer to the mix adds another variable into the equation that has to be dealt with. I will change primers when I see the need to somehow improve the overall recipe. When I do change the primers, just as others have mentioned, I drop the powder level for safety to the recommended starting levels. Whenever I change any component in the load, I restart the reload log for the new combination.

Bruce

[357shooter]

I tend to agree with Larry Gibson. In theory & practice, and in some situations, primers may matter and be critical. This is not one of those situations, if I understand the OP correctly. In a 9mm handgun at less than max pressure loads, it won't make a difference that you can tell.

I load for 357 magnum for revolver and rifle, and stick to CCI SP. In the past I used Federal because at that time, a revolver needed the soft cup. No matter, I don't keep a supply of different brand primers for each different recipe.

So each load is worked up with the one primer brand (CCI). If CCI is unavailable, I buy what is available and use it without any concern. 99% of my shooting is using target loads with the goal of accuracy, way below max pressure. It's also at indoor ranges, limited to 25 yards max. If the shooting you do is in a very different context my advice might change.

[Wayne Smith]

The thing to remember in this is: Always back your load off when changing any component! Including primers. This has been said ever since I began reloading over 40 years ago and before.

[HeavyMetal]

Maybe I can help this train of thought with my personell experince in swapping primers!

In the early 80's I discovered Winchesters 452AA for use in the 45 auto. It is just awesome and, I hope, the current version of this powder, SuperTarget, continues to be as effective when my supply runs out.

With my Lee H&G 68 clone cast boolits, 4.5 grains 452AA, and a federal 150 LP primer this load would, on demand, put 5 rounds in a hole I could cover with a Quarter at 20 yards!

This load was so consistant my buddy thought his Ohler chrony was broken!

We put 10 rounds across it and 775 was the only number that came on screen for the first 6 or 7 rounds! Finally got a 777 to come up and we realized just how consistant the load was!

This load performed this well in every series 70 GM pistol it was shot out of!

So now we know that I have a load that works very well and I shoot it for a couple years!

Now the Gulf War comes along and our first primer shortage hits! Now I have a problem making ammo because I never thought this could happen!

As my stock of 45 loads dwindles I need to find primers. lo and behold a deal shows itself on the horizon, the down side is it's Federal 155 magnum primer not the 150's.

My thought was a primers a primer! So I bought them and fast!

Made 500 rounds, same load, but using the 155 mag primer.

I now have a shotgun!

Shots were all over the paper and, even from a rest, never came close to anything resembling a "group"!

Took me a couple trips to the range to realize 452AA hated the mag primers and the groups showed it!

My chrony buddy gave me 100 std CCI LP primers and the next batch of 100 to roll of the Dillon were back in sync with previous load experience!

So yes primers can make a huge difference and should be experimented with once a safe load is determined for a particular weapon.

[Buddy]

Absolutely, each component should compliment the other to build an acceptable round. When you change one depending on what you had, it may get better or it may get worse.

[fredj338]

I will dcenta bit. If you are making midrange plinking ammo, primers just do not matter. If you are building the most accurate load &/or pushing the top end, then everything matters. I find primers more of an issue when loading for rifle rounds. The affects on accuracy can be quite a bit in some rifles.

[429421Cowboy]

I'll throw my hat in the ring behind the "better safe than sorry" crowd especially in a small capacity case like the 9mm. There are shooters here with vastly greater knowledge then i that have been able to conduct their own statisticly relevent testing that can offer more insight, i however simply maintain that any load at the upper end should be reduced or approached with caution if there is any component change.

[XWrench3]

IMO, it depends. if you are loading near max loads, or, you are a very good pistol shooter (accurate). then yes, they will make a difference. but if you are an average Joe, and you are just plinking, (like me), then a primer is a primer is a primer. i have a set list of what i call "standard practice loads", that are all well within the safe zone as far as pressures are concerned. i switch between primer brands quite often (not necessarily by choice), and never notice any difference. now, on my rifle, or 44 magnum hunting loads, NOTHING ever gets changed. i do not settle for good enough accuracy in any of them, and some of them are right at the top of the safe pressure zones. i would rather search for the correct primers, than start all over working up loads on those. and as such, when my stock dwindles down to 200 primers, they go onto my shopping list.

[1Shirt]

One word answer "Yep!". If the key to accuracy is consistancy in loading, then not standardizing primers for loads is the key to poor accuracy, along with all other things mentioned.
1Shirt!