What caliber is for me?

[birdadly]

Hi gang, since this thread got more attention I thought I'd jump in and give an update.

Snuffy ventured over for a visit and helped me reload my first-ever rifle rounds. He brought with him about 55 sized and ready to load boolits for my 280. We loaded them up with 4 different amounts of powder. The best group at 100yds was 4 shots w/in the size of a quarter with the last shot flying 3" from the rest. I imagine my scope was still zeroed from last year's shooting with factory rounds, and these lead rounds dropped about 10" below POA. I was surprised, but I guess it makes sense

I've also been shooting the Mosin, about 60 rounds of factory so far. I bought 100rds of factory in order to get used to the gun and then to have the brass for reloading. I'm awaiting an NOE mould from a Group Buy at the moment and look forward to finding a lighter load than factory rounds

I still plan to stick with the 280 for now, as shooting those 20 rounds of lead was awesome since every shot I wasn't thinking of the $1.80 (factory round) I just sent downrange I do, however, wonder if I can find a hunting boolit that will work well for range plinking up to 300 yards, or if I'll need 2 moulds, one for hunting and one for plinking. It's a beautiful gun so both it and myself will appreciate more time on the range together

Thanks fellas. I'm still keeping a record of everyone's suggestions and I really appreciate them and the advice you all have been sharing! -Brad

[wgg]

Use what you have to begin with then try others.

[TCLouis]

Savage rifle in 308, take left over money and buy best optics you can with the remaining money.

[snuffy]

Brad, I looked at the groups you sent me in the PM. My take on them is perhaps we should have weighed each boolit. I visually sort any boolit I make, but get real critical for rifle boolits. My rejection rate for those was well over 50% BEFORE sizing/lubing. The next time you try them, weigh them, sorting into like weight groups and loading all the same weights for each powder increment.

Some of those could have had internal voids, that would explain the flyers that ruined what would have been quite impressive groups. I'll get busy soon to make another run of those "culverts", so you have enough to sort for weight.

The SR-7625 seems to be a good powder for those loads. If we had weight sorted, we could say that there were two sweet spots,(discounting the one flyer in each otherwise great groups). Next time you could load closer increments in the area of the two good groups to refine and verify those loads.









I hope you don't mind me transferring those pics over here, the rest of the guys may have some insight into what to do next.

[Northface37]

I would def consider getting an AR-15 (.223). I just recently got one at the beginning of summer and i shoot around the same amount as you do. As you are probably aware of, the AR-15 semi auto is the what I call civilians version of the Military Issued M-4 which is automatic. I believe that many of the soldiers are now carrying the Ar as well. That being the case, you know that the rifle is going to be able to do the job and certainly meet your specific requests. The range that I shoot at goes out to around 125 meters and I can tell you that for target and plinking you will not be disappointed.

I also own a 30.06 and recently got a 300WSM. I can tell you that for what you want the 300 has way too much recoil for what your wanting. The 30.06 isnt too bad however it still cause you to as you said lose sight when you fire. 30.06 is a great gun though. popular for sure. You will be able to shoot the .223 all day long, even my wife can shoot it.

however, with all my experience, i have not had as much fun shooting any rifle like I have my AR-15.There is nothing like spending an hour sending 100 rounds down range. Now, looking at the price, if you want to buy new, the AR will probably end up costing you $800, I happened to get mine for a really good deal uesd, and it performs like if it were brand new. These rifles are built to take a beating and will last. You can also put many different accessories on these rifles to customize them to fit your personality.


Where to look:

I would look at budsguns.com, cheaperthandirt.com, cabelas from time to time will have ridiculous sales on these (have to check often tho), also some local gun stores may have a trade-in that you may find a good deal. gunsamerica.com, these are to just name a few.

The .223 is certainly no stranger to the casting/ reloading world. If you happen to run into problems on your journey there are plenty of knowledgeable folks on here to help you out.



Before you buy, do your research, once you have settled on something, shop around and keep going back to the same places. Good luck and happy hunting!

[superior]

Handi-rifle in 223

[Wayne Smith]

Brad, you got a mentor, an a good one! Next you need to find Grafs.com if you haven't already. As for your next one, you have found the milsurps. Look at the 98 Mausers (8x57) and the Swede Mausers (6.5x57) and I'll be suprised if you haven't found your next rifle.

[birdadly]

snuffy's a great mentor indeed! Thanks for posting the pics, I don't mind at all. Sorry for my delay in replying; I've been spending a few nights in the ER with the GF recently. Also, I'm working on a new casting/reloading area so that's been keeping me busy as well.

But yep, I'll weigh the leftover boolits and sort them out. Then I'll work around that 12.5 grain mark and see if it dials itself in.

I wish this would be a decent boolit for deer hunting, as I think it would motivate me to get these prepared a little quicker. I'm wondering what I want to do with hunting. I have 8 (I think) rounds of factory left that I'm thinking I should just wait til after deer season to work up these lead loads? rather than going back and forth between lead and FMJ?

Anyway, that's something I have to decide. But I'm keeping busy in the meantime. Sorry I have no other real update for the thread, but just thought I'd chime in.

I think I'm going to stay away from the 223 at the moment guys, although I will have one in the not too distant future I'm sure. Wayne, thanks for the heads up on a possibly next milsurp purchase. I will surely keep my eyes open for those 2. In fact, two weekends from now we have a local gun show that I'll go to and specifically look for them -Brad

[atr]

my suggestions....
257 Roberts
or
7x57 (7mm Mauser)

[helice]

This has been a fun thread. It shows the kind of people we have on this forum. Exceptional advice and brotherhood.
I'm pleased that you have started working with the 280. It should meet your requirements nicely. You did real good to pick up the Russian Rifle. THey are great fun and will do anything a 308 will do with open sights.
My recommendation for your next rifle is similar to 357Max's post. You've got a couple of Bolt Guns. See if you can find someone with a Lever Gun in 357 Magnum (Marlin or Rossi Puma, etc). Buy a couple boxes of ammo and take it out for a test drive. It won't be a 300 yard target rifle but it's hard to find a gun that gives more fun per grain of powder. There's an amazing assortment of moulds for the 38s/357s and as 357Max said they make a fabulous deer gun. I know that this isn't what you said you were looking for but it seems to me that the guns you already have are what you were looking for. Maybe it's time to look at something different. Karl

[birdadly]

helice, I love your advice on a lever gun. One thing I've always had on my mind while starting my firearm collection is variety (6 years ago). I have 7 at the moment and the only caliber duplicated so far is .22, but one is a pistol and the other a rifle (AR-style).

I'm glad some of you agree that the 280 will do well for the requirements I posted about in this thread. I spent a decent amount on the rifle and I think it's fantastic looking and feeling.

I may as well ask in this thread, about a hunting mould for the 280. That's one thing I'm still getting familiar with, figuring out the names of moulds, sizes of calibers and which moulds go with which calibers Some seem to make a lot of sense and a few others seem to confuse me.

ie: Miha's 452-200 = a .452 diamater at 200 grains
ie: NOE's 316299 = a .316 diameter at 202 grains... so what is the 299?

Anyway, is there a decent hunting boolit mould out there right now that I can pick up? My understanding is that I want a flat-nosed boolit, but I am unsure of weight. Or will I be waiting for some group buy to come along? My impression is that I want them sized at about .285, so I basically have been looking at mould numbers that include (285)...

Just to mention again, this is a Remington 700 CDL. Thanks fellas! -Brad

[NHlever]

While it is easier to get the larger calibers to shoot well with cast bullets, don't overlook the smaller calibers. I've worked with the .223 Rem., the .257 Roberts along with various .30, and .35 caliber rifles. The .243, and such might be good, but components like gas checks, and tools like molds can be hard to find. For longer range, it is easier to get heavier boolits to shoot well, but it's fun to shoot the little wild apples from trees with boolits in a .223 also, and there is no recoil. You would find that target loads with boolits in the 30-30 (which I liike), the .308 Win., and 30-06 is pretty mild until you get into very heavy for caliber boolits over 200 grains, and you will also find that the barrel of your gun stays cooler muich longer. When you are using well under 30 grains of powder, and often well under 20 grains, recoil becomes pretty pleasant. With it's longer neck, and thinner case I find the 30-06 to be a bit more versitile than the .308, and the case will seal with less pressure for some reason. (for instance the 30-06 cases will come out clean, and not sooty with as little as 10 grains of Unique behind a 115 flat nosed boolit, and it might take 2 -4 grains more for the .308 to come out clean. The longer neck makes it easier to find boolits that will not protrude into the powder space when seated for accuracy too. a) I have actually worked more with the .22 Hornet, and .223 (rather have a .222 when I find one) than I have with the 257 Roberts, but the latter is fun, and accurate too. For some reason it just seems that the case is just a bit larger than need be for a .25. I have a .250 Savage I haven't shot yet so it will be fun to see how that is to work with.

[helice]

Brad,
Oh my can I relate to the confusion. Some of the mould manufacturers have a pretty easy system of identification. Veral Smith at LBT makes just a couple of shaped noses and uses abbreviations to tell what's what. Ie WFN= Wide Flat Nose--LFN= Long Flat Nose etc. He follows the letters with diameter and weight.
Lyman (Ideal) started the cast boolit crazyness. They had all kinds of shapes for any given caliber. Each shape has a different number. Many rifles were made in 30 caliber. Some shape numbers were specifically designed for a specific rifle ie 30-06 or 30-40 Krag or 30-30. It gets confusing unless you have a chart of old Lyman moulds. Some of the OLD Lyman mould were exceptional but for reasons unknown Lyman stopped making them. Many of us here are delighted with a 30-30 bullet Lyman called the 311440. Lyman no longer makes it. But there are great mould makers represented here that have made copies of that mould. Because we know what the Lyman 311440 looks like - we know what NOE's version looks like. This forum has places to go to find pictures of those Lyman moulds. It's very helpful.

You ask for help for your .280. You can get a very inexpensive 130 grain Lee. Lyman makes a 135 and 160 grain pair. These three offerings are all round nosed and though they have been around forever, current thought is that flat point boolits work better. (I agree with this concept.) RCBS makes a heavy (168 grain) flat nosed gas checked mould that would (in my opinion) be a better choice. Check into BABore and NOE and Mehec to find out find out what they offer. I don't think Ranch Dog makes a 7mm slug but keep him in mind for other stuff when you get your lever guns.
Hope this helps. Karl

[bowfin]

The obvious answer is two rifles in each chambering, skipping some of the odder military and blackpowder cartridges...

...until next year...

[Three44s]

The gun:

You are never sorry to get a good Mosin Nagant ....... and particularily if you are a "caster".

Most folks here have one or more!

Savage rifles .......... the current bolt guns of most models utilize a nut that allows the owner with a couple of not very expensive tools to change their own barrels and set head space. Add to that the interchangeable bolt head and you got an EXPERIMENTERS DREAM!

Cartridges:

I'd say for the time being you'd probably want to go no smaller than .243 win for cast until you've got your teeth cut pretty well.

My personal favorite is the .338-06 ........ it's a great balance between j-word and cast loading ...... a lot of inherent accuracy and it's pretty over looked in my opinion!

The .35 Whelen ............ very Grand! Particularily in cast!!!!

The reason that casters lean towards bigger bores is that a small imperfection on a big slug amounts to a mosquitto bit on an elephant's rear end BUT a small imprefection on a small slug ..... is a big deal!

As you get your feet wet .......... you may well want to do the high wire without a net but right now ........... I'd keep the learning curve fairly flat.

Rifle and cartridge:

If you were to get a Savage 110 .......... you'd be set for the longer cartridges ......... you can do short ones too but there can be magazine issues.

If you got a Savage 10 ........... you are set for shorter cartridges only but in .243, .260 and .308 etc. your magazine issues will be few.

You can do the .223 quite easily in a short Savage and with some searching you can do them in the long actions but Savage has discontinued the .223 bolt head for the long bolt. Used bolt heads of this persuasion are found from time to time.

If you want to know more about Savage rifles ............. a good resource is the forum called Savageshooters. There is a member classifieds there that's available if you want to take the next step but it costs a few bucks a year.

The biggest expense there is the buying ........... ! I've got one corner of my man cave filled with Savage barrels I've found there ...........

............ guard your wallet!! But then, you only live ONCE!!


Three 44s

[Echo]

I guess I can add my opinions to the batch. A Handi-Rifle in 30-30 would be a distinct possibility. So would a Marlin in 30-30. A Handi-Rifle in 7.62x39 would be super, but I don't think they make them. These would all meet your criteria of low recoil, and there are jillions of cast boolit molds available for the 30 caliber.

[birdadly]

The obvious answer is two rifles in each chambering, skipping some of the odder military and blackpowder cartridges...

...until next year...

Finally some good advice!!! Haha just kidding fellas! I just realized there were some new posts here and thanks for them!

Something I didn't know when I started this thread was how much less powder goes into a cast rifle round compared to factory. The rounds Snuffy and I made up were best around 15.5 grains of powder... and I know it's a different powder, but this past weekend I made up some factory reloads and put in 48 grains! Well you're not surprised I'm sure, but I was!

Anywho, I have to imagine that plays into the whole recoil issue, that cast loads, in general, will have less recoil than factory rounds (which is what I was used to). Again, new to me only I'm sure

Speaking of making up those factory loads... so under Snuffy's guidance we made 20 rounds, and without his guidance I made another 20 rounds successfully... but my 32nd round... I got stuck in the sizing die.. ugh... I thought I was screwed until I came here and found out that it happens often and there's a tool for such an occasion! I swear I used the same amount of lube I had for the prior 31 rounds, but oh well. Now to buy the tool... -Brad

[shdwlkr]

Don't let that bother you think of going through a divorce and having just hours to get all your stuff and then when the dust clears try and remember what box anything is in.
I had to go through my mold collection recently and found I was missing some lucky for me the old brain kicked in what the box with the rest of them in looked like. Now if I can only find all my reloading dies?
Oh and don't forget the addiction to different molds I think I have almost 50 now and still buying more you can never have to many different molds to play with.
As for the stuck case I once did that and was so mad and walked away for a few hours only to come back out and out pops the case just like it was supposed to do.
The thing to be most mindful of when loading for cast bullets is that you don't double charge the case or some really not nice things might happen. Yes I did it once was lucky my double charge was still under max so all it did was thump me a real good one and what a fire out the muzzle you would have thought I had a cannon. Oh well sometimes dumb things don't hurt us then again sometimes it ends the whole deal for us.
be careful and have fun