Need help finding accuracy with my 1894SS

[ShrinkMD]

I tried out some 240 gr lswc loads I made up with Unique 10 gr. Thankfully they all cycled just fine, but the accuracy (at 50 yds, to sight in with the factory sights, for now) was awful. We're talking all over the target printed on a piece of standard copy paper.

I've read about slugging bores and sometimes the Marlin lever actions being a bit big. I usually order from Dardascast bullets. Would it be easier for me to order 100 rounds in each larger diameter size and just shoot them all to figure out what the gun likes?

Its funny, because I was shooting my 357 revolver the other day with some .357 sized (I ordered incorrectly) cast bullets, and they were shooting as well as the .358 I had.

Does my problem sound more gun related? This is a new "Remlin" Marlin made recently at the NY plant, so I've read all kinds of horror stories on the internet about the problems they have. Mine seemed like a good one, since the action is smoothing out and it fed the SWC shape no problem. Maybe just bad trigger and sights?

At least the load didn't lead the barrel. It's pretty funny looking into that giant bore and cleaning it out. No mysteries of what is in there, you can see all the way through! No borescope needed!

[zuke]

How many round's down the tube so far?
Perhap's you still have burr's that need ironing out?

[ShrinkMD]

Only 20 of hardcast lead so far. It's just a baby.

[PacMan]

Lot of things to look at but first thing i will say is that you cannot base the accuracy or lack of on one load.
You could buy every size sutiable and it may still not like your load.
Have you shot any factory loads thur ir and how did it do with them.

[btroj]

I have found that my Marlins all seem to do best with a bullet where the nose tapers smoothly into the bore rise portion. SWC and others with that sharp shoulder do not shoot near as well for me. My 45 Colt is pretty easy going about bullets but my 357 is extremely picky. It shoots 3 inch groups at 25 with a Lee swc. The 358156 will do 2 to 3 inches at 50 but that wasn't what I wanted. I got a 359640 mould an it will shoot 2 to 3 inches at 100. That was what I was after.
Moral of the story- keep trying different bullets. Sometimes the gun is just a bit picky about shape, weight, etc and you need to find what it wants.
As for the "Remlin" problems- I don't buy into all of that. I haven't seen any and I can tell you that any manufacturer can put out a crappy gun from time to time. I don't look at that one as a good example of the standard. I doubt you got a bad gun.

[ShrinkMD]

What would be the most logical plan? I have some factory american eagle 240 jsp and a few Hornady 240 xtp rounds to try.

I was planning on ordering cast bullets soon anyway. Would it make sense to order 100 of each type and sizing? Or should I just get another 500 of the 240 swc and play with powder/load? I previously made up some bullseye 6 gr which had a very low SD.

Ah well, at least my 357 cast loads are going well. 13.5 gr of 2400 is fun, and shot well.

[btroj]

You can run some jacketed thru it and that will give you a good idea of what it can do. You will need to clean the copper out after that but it gives you a baseline.

What size were the bullets? Many of the Marlins do better with a .432 or so bullet.

SD is not a good indicator of accuracy. Seems strange but it is true.

Buying bullets makes this harder as you are relying on someone else to determine alloy, lube, and size. You eliminate your ability to have total control over those factors.

[ShrinkMD]

I know. I've been scrounging wheel weights, but too many hobbies and not enough time!

The dardas are bhn 16 and so far I haven't had leading worth complaining over.

[Unclenick]

Slug the bore. My 1895's, at least, do noticeably better with bullets sized 0.002" over-groove than with the general purpose 0.001" over-groove prescription. I've heard the same is true for other chamberings. Use lead slugs, not casting alloy, in a lightly lubed bore for slugging, and a micrometer for the measuring.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Shrink: My 1894 has a .431 groove dia, and this is a fairly common size though I have heard of .432 barrels.

My gun seems to shoot .431's and .432 's well. It also shoots the American Eagle ammo you have fairly well (3" at 50 yds) it is the only factory ammo that gun has ever shot.

My cast boolits will group much tighter,

Mine seems to be in a good spot with 22gr of H110 which is about 1600fps. I primarily use Lyman 429244 GC 255gr for this gun and most all of my .44 magnums and specials.

I need a .432 size die in order to shoot bigger ones which I want to try soon.

These guns have 1 in38" twist barrels and will only shoot so well so don't be disappointed by a 2" group at 50 yds. That is actually pretty good for an iron sighted rifle. I have seen some that were better but nobody actually knew why. Also the first 3 shot out of a cold barrel is as good as it is going to get. When things heat up in these rifles accuracy starts to drift. Just the nature of the lever action design.

Randy

[EDK]

Go to lasc.us and read Glenn Fryxell's article on 1894 MARLINS...and all the others too! marlinowners.com has a lot of useful information also.

Quick answer is go to ranchdogoutdoors and get one of his TLC 432 265 moulds in a six cavity version and one of his .432 press mounted sizing dies. This is one of the best boolits I've used in several 44 MARLIN Cowboy Rifles...and d*** good in my VAQUEROS (it cleans residual lead from the bores.) Cast it a bit harder than you usually use and follow his instructions for LEE LIQUID ALOX, JPW or 45/45/10, etc. I like this boolit so much that I bought the plain base, lube groove version from NOE....you don't need gas checks at 1000 fps or less in a 44.

I HAD one the early 1894SS guns, but it just didn't agree with me for various reasons...I really like my 24 inch Cowboy Rifles. My step son's boys love it.

[harvey45]

Hi my son has the 1894ss in 44 magnum. For his accuracy load he loves a 240 grain drycreek bullet with 7.6 grains of universal. it shoots out at about 1024fps from his marlin. It also shoots really well in my 4 inch S&W 44 mag.
For bear protection my son shoots a 300 grain bullet but my gunsmith had to work on the gun so it will cycle smooth enough. I shoot a 310 grain gas check boolit with 10 grains of vita n350 for my 4 inch S&W as we both do ATV ing in the mountains of northern california
In your marlin a 250 to 270 grain bullet will be fine preferably moly load just a few tenths down.

[ShrinkMD]

Ok, my bullets came in the mail, so this weekend I want to make some loads.

I have .430 and .431 sized bullets in 180gr and 200gr rnfp, and I picked up a box of hornady xtp 240gr I have Bullseye, Unique, and 2400. I'm assuming 2400 is the best choice for that long carbine barrel.

Can someone suggest some likely accuracy loads for these powders? I just got the Bullsbag rest, so hopefully I'll be able to get a better idea of which bullet/load combination shoots best, despite the so-so stock sights and trigger.

My plan is to make the same load with both sizes of bullets. That way instead of slugging I will have more direct evidence if what the gun likes to shoot.

[ShrinkMD]

I shot some of my loads yesterday, and the accuracy was pitiful. Maybe I'm just so used to aperture sights that I'm clueless with the buckhorns? I don't know, but it looked like shotgun pellets at 100 yds. I was shooting 200 gr lead RNFP bullets over 21 gr of 2400. They were going about 1650.

Something tells me I really need to change the sights to the Williams receiver peep and the smaller front sight, as well as getting the Wild West trigger. I already have a good rifle rest.

I was also trying 0.430 vs 0.431 bullets. Interestingly, over 20 shot samples, the 0.431 shot 1678 with an SD of 17.9, whereas the 0.430 shot 1653 with SD of 24.9 I think I need to shoot a larger sample to see if this is statistically significant, but it looks like the bigger bullet is sealing the bore and getting a more uniform burn?

I shot 5 of the American Eagle JHP I have left, and three were pretty close to each other, but the other two were at different ends of the target completely. The three close together were about 6 inches to the right of the target, however.

So the gun is fun, but so far I can shoot rings around it with my 39A using crappy bulk pack ammo. Of course, that gun has a nice tang peep, thin front sight, and a trigger job!

To be continued...

[Leadforbrains]

Hey Shrink.
My favorite Load for my Marlin is a 265 gr boolit over 16.5 grs of 2400. It is a mild load that is very accurate in my Marlin. I also like 7.5 grs of universal with a 250 gr SWC. I was getting good accuracy with my boolits sized at .431, but I am now experimenting with .433 sized boolits now and accuracy is still good.
I agree with you on the buckhorn sights as my eyes are getting older they are getting harder to use. If that is the case with you also move your target to the 50 yard line. Start your experimenting from there and then move farther back.
I just put a skinner sight on my .444P outfitter and I thinking about putting one on my 1894 as well.
I hope this helps and good luck to you sir.

[Leadforbrains]

1kshooter has a thread over in the hunting section about his great success with his 1894 and his loads. You should read that as it is very informative.

[Larry Gibson]

"LSWC"? are we talking a harder cast lswc or a softer swaged lswc?

Also while 10 gr Unique is an excellent load with a harder cast 240 gr SWC in most revolvers it can be a bit too much for that bullet in 10"+ single shots and rifles. The velocity of that load out of my 6 1/2" Ruger BHFT is 1175 fps. Out of a longer rifle barrel it is quite a bit higher. Two problems there; 1st it is going subsonic about 50 yards and the bullet may be getting buffeted too much to maintain adequate stability. 2nd, pushing a PB, especially a BB'd one, that fast is many times just not accurate with pistol bullets.

I've found with pistol cartridges I load for accuracy in the rifle, not exceeding handgun data, and just accept that load in the pistol. With PB'd harder cast bullets (WW alloy or harder) best accuracy will come between 900 and 1200 fps in rifles. Suggest you slow down the load with the bullet you are using. Try starting at 7.5 gr Unique with the bullet you are using (if a harder alloy cast bullet) and work up to 9.5 gr in 1/2 gr increments. The accuracy at 50 yards will tell you when you've pushed the bullet too hard.

Larry Gibson

[ShrinkMD]

Thanks for the info. I will definitely read that other thread. I will have to try some lighter Unique or even Bullseye loads to get the velocity down.

The bullets were hardcast bhn 16 bevel base from Dardascast. So for cast lead keep under 1200 fps out of the 1894 using pistol bullets?

I guess I'm lucky any made it to the target at all. My mosins shoot better with surplus. But your explanation about the pistol bullets going too fast and getting unstable is interesting.

So for high speed loads, I would need to use jacketed rounds like the Hornady xtp?

[Larry Gibson]

ShrinkMD

In a M94 .44 I found 7.5 gr Unique to be a very good load under commercial cast 240 gr SWCs. Velocity should be right around 1000 fps out of your Marlin.

For high speed magnum level loads the Hornady 240 XTP over 23 gr H110 with a magnum primer has always been a top performer for me in revolver, single shot or rifle. Very deadly on deer and pigs. However for cast I was using the Lyman 429244 HP'd with a 1/8" Forster HP tool. Lately I have been using the Lyman "Devastator" 429640 HP instead. I cast hem of WWs + 2% tin and then lead at 50/50. Mine weight 275 gr fully dressed with Hornady GC and Javelina lube. Over the same load of 23 gr H110 in WW cases with CCI 350 primers they run 1486 fps out of my 8.4" Contender at a measured 30,200 psi(M43). Accuracy is excellent. I imagine they would run close to 1550 fps out of your Marlin. They are truely "devastating" on game BTW. There is a thread in the hunting forum by an Aussie who uses them out of handgun and rifle on pigs, well worth your effort to check it out as it has lots of photos.

Larry Gibson

[Pat I.]

In my Marlin I use 19 grs of AA #9 under a mould quenched 260 gr LFN gas check bullet sized .432 and lubed with LBT Blue. Shoots pretty good.