1911 Model 45 ACP / Which One?

[Mavrick]

I happened into a store a while back, and they had a Firestorm sitting in the case. It was new, and it fit my hand so I bought it. Hmmm, $666+ odd pennies, OTD. I call it my "Evil Pistol." The cost was with 2 spare magazines, a Jaqui Slide, tax and Brady-check.
It is a a full-frame, with a Commander hammer. It has a large three-dot sight, front and rear finger-striations, extended slide-release, and extended safety.
It was made on CNC machines in the Filipines. The first 5k slipped through it so fast I almost lost count. The only way I could get it to FTF was to leave some of the powder out of the cartridge. Except for the factory test load, every round has been a cast-boolit handload, and it's coming up on 10k. not too bad for 2 1/2 years, huh?
I tried to find another, as a couple of m' buds wanted one, too, but they're apparently not made now. They are called a Classic II, now.
I hope you're as happy with what you get as I am with what I did.
Have fun,
Gene

[DanWalker]

Back in the day. Long gone now. Of course, $400 was pretty hard to come buy back
then, too. For me harder than $900 is now.

Bill

I hear you Bill.
When I bought my Norinco, my gross monthly salary was less than a third of what I now pay in income taxes every month!
Guess the taxes are just a "reward" for decades spent busting my butt, instead of just sitting on it, whining about how hard life is. Aint socialism great?

[Changeling]

Whats the chances that the DW will remain that "Well Made" now that CZ owns them? To many time I've seen companies taken over and the product go down the drain.

Don't read into this that I think CZ is a bad company, but they are all getting greedy!

[tonyjones]

I just checked out the Dan Wesson pistols on CZ's website. They list from $1,275 to $2,040. For those prices I think I'll stick with Clark Custom.

Tony

[Walt]

I have been wanting to purchase a 1911 model 45 acp. As you guys know there are many to choose from. Mtgun44 lead me to take a look at the Dan Wesson and I like the fit and finish.

My question is which brand do the rest of you guy's prefer and what mods have you made to the ones you own to improve performance?

Just want to gain some knowledge and information before I make my decision.

Thanks!

Randy

My thoughts....
I don't see anything here about a price even being considered at this point. It seems like that is all that is being talked about here now. If you don't want to pony up for a nice hand fitted pistol that's OK but you don't need to bash the folks that do. Some folks take pride in ownership of their guns. My guess is that anyone on this site that really wants a $2000 pistol can buy one. We have all got computers and pay for the internet every month! You may have to cut some corners and save for awhile but you can do it. Randy also asked about mods to our guns. This is another place where the semi-custom guns shine. If one wants something different on a certain model Baer for instance, Les will fix you up. Want to change from a flat MSH to an arched, long trigger to a short, single side safety to an ambi, no sweat. Try that with a Rock Island. Fact is if you want something special the semi-custom is the way to go. You can buy a $500 RIA and dump another $500 into it making it want you want on the kitchen table. Then you can resell it for $300 when you find out it really wasn't what you wanted afterall.
Walt

[btroj]

You fail to recognize that CAN pay 2000 dollars and WILL pay it are not the same. My FIL would love the fit and finish of a fine firearm. He shoots mostly mil surps. It is not as much what he can afford but what he chooses to afford.

My statement was to get what first his needs and his budget. Sound advice in my opinion. Not everyone wants a different MSH or trigger. No everyone wants the bells and whistles. Some want a plain 1911 because it is like what they remember from the service. Is there anything wrong with that?
It seems every time this question comes up it becomes a cases of "If isn't a 1500 dollar plus semi or full custom gun it sucks" rant. I can't stand it. If there was not a market for inexpensive 1911s then there wouldn't be so many companies fighting over that market. Someone is buying those guns.

I say it again- get something that fits your needs and budget. For plinking you don't need 1.5 inch 50 yard accuracy. Don't fall into the trap that is marketing hype. Get something, learn to make it work, and go have fun.

[HeavyMetal]

Kid at work has a $500 credit at one of the local gun shops.

Asked me what I thought about the current crop of pistols on the market, he's wanting a 45 and a 9, trying to decide which first.

Advised Taurus PT 1911 or CZ 75 best bang for buck in either caliber! He'll still have to add a little to cover costs but he's got the big chunk down already so it shouldn't be a problem.

Told him to avoid the plastic guns like the plage!

Can't remember buying a pistol and not detail stripping it before the first round was fired to clean and lube it. Amazing what one can find in a gun when it's been stripped to the bare frame!

I will second the idea that building your own 1911 from parts is not as easy as it sounds! I've done it twice and each time found that a lot of "drop in" parts don't!

Buy a complete gun then adjust to suit. Stay away from "gadgets" like "rails" what a joke! Try to holster a gun with a flash light clamped on the end of it!

Some up grades can be handy "IF" you need them! Ambi safety if your a lefty is an absolute must! If your shoot right then a safety that is big enough to use is all you need.

I favor full length recoil spring guides as it keeps the slide from riasing when fired ( streching frame rails each time) and helps in a small way to keep the spring from binding and extends it life some what.

Not as fond of Beaver tail grip safeties as I am a GS that spreads the recoil impluse out across the top of the hand. The stock 1911 GS will give me that "drive a nail into my hand" impression after a hard day at the range.

Same with the "arched" main spring housing except in the heel of the hand! Flat main spring housing is the first, and I mean first, change I make in a 1911 if it has the arched housing!

Sights can be adjustable or fixed, no prefference here, just as long as they are big enough to be seen. Hate all the three dot, straight eight, you name it stuff they paint and or add to sights to make them easy to see!

Before everyone went to some type of dot sight all the big name shooters, and many not so big name local winners, found out that plain black sights were the best for all shooting conditions! Three Dot sights, and all the rest of that faldaral, are nothing more than an attempt to substitute a "gadget" for the one thing we all need PRACTISE!

Having said all that I'll apologise if this sounds like a "rant" ( it wasn't meant to) and once again state that the Tuarus is, this morning anyway, the best bang for the buck on the market in a 1911 platform.

[Lonerider]

I have the Taurus PT 1911 and for my applications, its just fine. I purposely did not want a "tight' gun. Though my PT 1911 is pretty tight for me, barely any movement on slide/frame at all. I wanted something that was realiable if it got a little dirty in the field and still go boom when I pull the trigger (sometimes...from what I heard and read .... the expensive 'tight' guns can run into problems, with the slightest bit of dust/dirt, causing them to mal-function. I have not found this to be the case with my PT 1911. I was/am not intrested in a sub moa at 25, 50 or what ever yards.

As mentioned before, while in the navy, used the Remington Rand's that rattle like crazy but kept on shooting.

For me at the time, the PT 1911 was/is the best bang for the buck for around $500. I know there may be better and more costly 1911's but I am satisfied with what I have.

Lonerider

[ole 5 hole group]

A good general rule is: you usually get what you pay for. I imagine you paid a little and got a lot; a couple times in your lifetime, but as a general rule you don’t find quality cheaply. Depending upon your shooting skills you may or may not be able to take advantage of a well setup and expensive pistol’s capabilities.

Some individuals enjoy shooting at small objects and expect to hit their target the majority of the time while coming damn close the rest of the time. Some individuals enjoy shooting at larger targets and aren’t as anal relative to accuracy and possessing a pistol shooting consistent 4 to 5 inch groups at 25 yards suits them just fine.

I started shooting a Civilian Marksmanship Unit/Program loaned GI45 at stripped gophers back in the late 50’s and only hit a few of them on the run, as they had to “find” that slug because I couldn’t hit them standing still!! Those ole 45’s were reliable feeders but accuracy beyond 10 yards wasn’t their forte.

Times have changed and the semi-custom pistols are made to shoot at real small objects – it just takes a pisterlo to hit those very small targets. Speaking for myself, I like my Baer, which is the PII model with 1.5” guarantee built in 2000 but really don’t appreciate their “hard fit”. I really like those small groups off the bench and I still shoot at small “varmints” off my hind legs at moderate to extreme ranges and I can miss them just as easy as I could with the ole GI 45.

To answer the OP’s question – if I were new to the 45 market and looking for my 1st 45 pistol – I’d probably go with the Ruger that just came out. American made and it shoots very well. If you ever find yourself wanting or needing more accuracy then you can move up but by then you will have a lot more knowledge from years of shooting that Beauty to know what you want and need to spend in order to achieve your desired goals.

[ColColt]

My first 45 Auto was a Colt Series 70 Mark IV. I bought it for $159.95 from Builder's Hardware in Charlotte, NC back around 1972....precious memories. I remember the price so well as I had to fill out a report about it being stolen and it's serial number and value. I got it back, would you believe, ten years later. I sold it as it was used in the commission of a murder in San Raphael, CA and that just bothered me. It made a long trip across country but, I was amazed I even got it back again.

It was a great shooter if you used hardball. The feed ramp wasn't throated like they did them later.

[Walt]

You fail to recognize that CAN pay 2000 dollars and WILL pay it are not the same. My FIL would love the fit and finish of a fine firearm. He shoots mostly mil surps. It is not as much what he can afford but what he chooses to afford.

My statement was to get what first his needs and his budget. Sound advice in my opinion. Not everyone wants a different MSH or trigger. No everyone wants the bells and whistles. Some want a plain 1911 because it is like what they remember from the service. Is there anything wrong with that?
It seems every time this question comes up it becomes a cases of "If isn't a 1500 dollar plus semi or full custom gun it sucks" rant. I can't stand it. If there was not a market for inexpensive 1911s then there wouldn't be so many companies fighting over that market. Someone is buying those guns.

I say it again- get something that fits your needs and budget. For plinking you don't need 1.5 inch 50 yard accuracy. Don't fall into the trap that is marketing hype. Get something, learn to make it work, and go have fun.

btroj,
You are missing the point. The OP asked what we shot and if we did any mods to our guns. He did not ask anyone about helping him with his budget. Read Randy's post. Your first answer that you liked your Gold Cup was what he is looking for.
Sincerely, Walt

[Lonerider]

I have to admit, if I was going to be buying my first 1911 as an entry level gun, I sure would consider the ruger 1911....about the same price as my PT1911....but made in the USofA. At the time I bought my Taurus PT 1911.....there was no model close to the 'extras' of the PT at the same price.

I only wish that Ruger would make her in Blue....I would buy one in a heart beat....if the frames were forged and not stamped.

Lonerider

[MtGun44]

Changeling -

I know the people making the decisions at CZ and BELIEVE it that they are VERY
committed to maintaining the high quality that they have in their DW 1911s. It is
not easy for them, but they really DO know what they have and are trying to increase
production volume while retaining quality. Last I spoke with them they were just
accepting that to keep the quality up they just couldn't increase production and were
OK with that.

As long as you don' mind dealing with crooks, I guess Clark Custom is OK. Check into
how many times they have been sued or threatened with lawsuit for patent infringement.
Maybe with the daughter running things they have cleaned up their act. I know of several
cases of blatant patent infringement under the old man, years ago. May be clean as driven
snow now, but I'll never be a customer.


Bill

[Changeling]

Changeling -

I know the people making the decisions at CZ and BELIEVE it that they are VERY
committed to maintaining the high quality that they have in their DW 1911s. It is
not easy for them, but they really DO know what they have and are trying to increase
production volume while retaining quality. Last I spoke with them they were just
accepting that to keep the quality up they just couldn't increase production and were
OK with that.

As long as you don' mind dealing with crooks, I guess Clark Custom is OK. Check into
how many times they have been sued or threatened with lawsuit for patent infringement.
Maybe with the daughter running things they have cleaned up their act. I know of several
cases of blatant patent infringement under the old man, years ago. May be clean as driven
snow now, but I'll never be a customer.


Bill

Bill, 1 time years ago, but absolutely never again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shooter]

COLT! All others are copies.

+1, what he said.

[wildcatter]

I am sure that Baer produces a fine gun but it is way beyond the means for many. I can afford one but chose not to. I chose to stick with a less expensive gun. Mine may not be guaranteed to shoot 1.5 inches at 50 yards but I don't often shoot 50 yards so I don't care.
We all have ideas of the "perfect" gun but budget must always be taken I to account. The OP needs to find something that fits his needs, his wants, and most of all, his budget.

The standard Les Baer P II retails for $1790.00 and can be had street price for $1525.00, add $100.00 for the Stainless, Dan Wesson prices range for a same feature gun is the valor, your looking at a retail price of $1594.00 and I would assume street price would be around $1250.00 to $1300.00. So since the original question was about the Dan Wesson I suggest a couple hundred more and you have a 1911 with a better resale value and one that is proven to hold up for 50 to 70 thousand rounds without shooting loose! I would not drop over a grand on a 1911 and not find the other 2 or 3 hundred for the Baer, just me. You can spend more but I defy you to find one that shoots better and be more reliable!!!

[MtGun44]

Side by side the DW is the equal of the Baer without the hardfit lockup, IMO. Used to be
a much larger price difference, my friend's Baer was over $2500 and my DW was $925.

Sounds like Baer is moving down to compete with DW, and I know DW has not been able
to hold the older prices.

"You pays yer money and you takes yer choice!"

Bill