Scrap Yard Morons

[468]

Actually, electronic/computer based testing equipment is a fairly new tool(within 20 years) to the scrap world. There used to be NO testeing equipment at all. Items were identified by shape or original use. Different acids were used on metals to help identify them by the color of the chemical reaction, if any. Other metals were "sparked" with a grinder...the color and shape of the sparks were used to determine the alloy.

These guys are far from being "Morons"

[justingrosche]

Here is a link of what I referred to for the specific gravity test for lead with a another link for weights of common metal, including tin and antimony. Upon further reading, to help me understand the process more, it seems if you follow the procedures correctly and do the mathematics right, it will give you dead on #'s for lead, tin,antimony.
I believe you would find a fourth element in the equation that would be difficult to account for, which would be oxides and other contaminates in the mix of your alloy
www.gold-nuggets.org/specific-gravity-test.htm
http://www.reade.com/Particle_Briefings/spec_gra.html

[dualsport]

RotoMetals will do an analysis, I think $75.

[justingrosche]

sorry link fixed
I think this is something that the average joe can do in his reloading room for no $$$ , just time. which is an equally valuable commodity.

[fredj338]

I wonder what law makes it illegal for them sell lead? Is it now a controlled substance?

In some states, like Kalif, they are classifying lead as a HM & needs to be "disposed" following certain guidelines. Many fear the govt will run sting ops to catch them selling it, which is not within the guidelines for disposal. Stupid, yes, after all it is a system run by govt. employees. It doesn't have to make sense.

[MikeS]

I don't get how they are morons for not having a very expensive piece of equipment for free use?

They're not morons for not having an expensive piece of equipment, they're morons for the way they reacted when I asked. As I said in the original post, one guy thought I was stupid for not knowing that I was holding a piece of lead! A couple of the places had people that actually knew what I was talking about, just didn't have it, and I have no problem with that. I don't know, maybe they act the way they do from dealing with crack addicts all day long that are selling stuff they stole to bring to the scrapyard.

Perhaps other areas are different, but down here that's the clientele of scrapyards, and has been for years. About 15 years ago when I was in the leather machinery business, we had a small fenced in yard behind our building, and we were storing some older cutting machines (known in the industry as clickers) that were heavy cast iron machines that had a heavy aluminium piece on them, and we had them under tarps. We also had a car trailer with aluminium rams, and one day I noticed the lock that locked the rams in place was cut, and the rams were missing! Found the ramps at a scrapyard a few blocks away. When we took the tarps off the machines a while later, every one was missing the swing arm (big aluminium part)!

I'm sure these yards have some legitimate customers, but they also get lots of the type I just mentioned.

I think some people here just have never had to deal with stupid, or uneducated people. Back in 1981 we tried to run a school to teach high school dropouts how to operate leather working machines so they could get jobs with some of our customers, and at one point we found out that about half the class didn't even know what an inch was, or how to read a ruler! I don't know if that's just being uneducated, or being stupid, but how can somebody go thru grade school and not know what an inch was, or how to read a ruler? Is ruler reading a high school subject? If so, this country is in a lot of trouble!

And when somebody looks at me with a dumb look and says "You want to do what?" and after explaining they say "Now why would you want to do that?" also with a dumb look, they're morons pure and simple.

[Rocket Man]

Scrap metal yards are not metallurgist. They buy scrap metal that is all they do.

[Bad Water Bill]

At my local yard they pay .09 per # and sell for .65. Yes they take caribbean cruises and drive Mercedes convertibles.

[a.squibload]

The one I go to most often has the "ray gun" analyzer,
they knew exactly what I wanted to know and tested for free.
I have a bunch of steel, friends know I want lead and
bring me their old auto parts, etc. to trade in.

[Recluse]

And when somebody looks at me with a dumb look and says "You want to do what?" and after explaining they say "Now why would you want to do that?" also with a dumb look, they're morons pure and simple.

I bet you just make dumptruck loads of friends everywhere you go.

If I wanted to test some metals out for the specificities that you describe, I would think only a moron would go to a scrap yard where their primary, and generally ONLY, purpose is to take in as much various metal as they can for as low a price as they can, then sell as much as they can for as high a dollar amount/ratio per weight unit as they can--and then expect them to have a $30K to $60K piece of intricate machinery and the BA/BS/MA/MS/PhD staff to immediately snap to and tell you the molecular structure and gravity weight, etc etc of the chunk of metal you were holding in your hands.

Instead, I think I might wander to someplace like maybe. . . a machine shop, or even. . . maybe. . . a college university where they have labs and equipment (all funded by taxpayer dollars for the most part) and an abundance of students who'd love to take on an extracurricular project in exchange for maybe a 12-pack of adult beverage or maybe a pizza or even the chance to shoot some of those mysterious metal projectiles.

Not everyone who deals in metal, or even lead, is a shooter or even a boolit caster and thus, probably couldn't care less what such a piece of metal we're holding in our hands means to us.

WE'RE viewed as morons and rednecks all too often in the gun world, and it often burns us up. But you get what you give in this world, including the attitude and superiority complex you portray to others.

I get more lead and scrap metal by hanging around for a few minutes at such places and talking TO these folks rather than talking down to them. I'll order them a pizza or reach in the back of my truck and pull out an iced-down 12-pack or some fishing lures and the result is those redneck morons remember me and often SAVE things for me.

One place even sends me texts on my cell phone when they get a good load of scrap in.

Dunno. *shrug* Guess it's all in individual perspectives.

[troyboy]

We all clowns in the same circus

[izzyjoe]

you have to remember that most scrap yards have to deal with crack heads, you know the one's stealing copper on a daily basis. and it's a big PITA for them cause now they have to do more work to keep track of people and scrap. so if they give you funny looks, just explain yourself and hopefully they will understand.

[MikeS]

I bet you just make dumptruck loads of friends everywhere you go.

If I wanted to test some metals out for the specificities that you describe, I would think only a moron would go to a scrap yard where their primary, and generally ONLY, purpose is to take in as much various metal as they can for as low a price as they can, then sell as much as they can for as high a dollar amount/ratio per weight unit as they can--and then expect them to have a $30K to $60K piece of intricate machinery and the BA/BS/MA/MS/PhD staff to immediately snap to and tell you the molecular structure and gravity weight, etc etc of the chunk of metal you were holding in your hands. ...

But you get what you give in this world, including the attitude and superiority complex you portray to others.

As a matter of fact, I do make bunches of friends.

I would never have thought to go to a scrap yard, except after reading many posts here from folks that get their lead 'shot' at the local scrap yard! I don't know where you live, but around here to get into most universities you need to show your student ID card to the security guard at the gate!

As for portraying a superiority complex, or attitude, I'm unaware that I'm doing such a thing. As for talking down to the people at the scrap yard, how do you know how I talked to them, were you there? As for hanging around the scrap yard, around here you couldn't do that, the few I went to were very busy places, with bunches of people standing around with piles of scrap, and if you weren't there to sell something, they want you to leave. The thing is, I could barely tell who were crack addicts trying to sell scrap they stole, and who worked at the scrap yard.

It's a strange place where I got looked down on because I wasn't wearing torn dirty clothes, and only had a small 2# piece of lead with me, not a shopping cart (stolen from the local supermarket) full of scrap! Around here shopping carts are stolen so often that a few stores have installed electronic locks on them, if you try and take them out of the store's parking lot the front wheels lockup!

If my posts made it seem like I was talking down to these folks, I'm sorry for giving the wrong impression.

If I call somebody or some group of people morons here, it has nothing to do with how I interacted with them while I was there. Tell me that nobody here has ever had a cordial conversation with somebody, and when you walked away thought to yourself 'Wow, that guy/girl/etc. is a moron (or stupid, or a jerk, or whatever you thought of them).

[bowfin]

I agree with Recluse on this one. Calling a group of people "morons" just because you didn't get satisfaction is somewhat harsh.

The junk guys might have been busy. Then you pull up and they size you up as someone who wasn't going to buy or sell anything, yet you make requests (demands?) on their time and patience. So with a wink and a nod they decid to yank your chain by playing dumb or playing you for dumb. Heck, I've played the passive aggressive game before with people who are giving me a hard time. Give them a blank stare just to watch the frustration grow, or give them exactly what they want when I knew full well it was exactly opposite of what they need. Or tell them "Unless you can tell me the exact diameter of that shaft, I cant make a new one ..." while holding a micrometer in my hand. Then again, for people who treat me as an equal, I would never pull those stunts.

I thought you were a little short with people in another thread who were offering up suggestions on how to get the larger pieces of lead down to manageable size. You wanted only buyers to post, it seemed.

Yet now, you are still facing the same problem. I wonder if the "junkyard morons" could have helped you cut them up or give you a great swap or price for those too big to handle lead pieces.

[MikeS]

Perhaps I was 'a little short' with people in another thread. Remember, that thread was in the swappin & sellin forum, was specifically about selling lead bricks. It was not a discussion forum, or a thread about how to cut lead pigs. I happened to mention that my supplier of the lead bricks I'm selling also had some pigs of an unknown alloy, and then got almost a whole page of suggestions on how to cut the lead pigs! If it had been in a discussion forum like this one, those suggestions would have been fine. Everything has a proper place, and a post trying to sell lead bricks is not the appropriate place to discuss how to cut lead pigs. As for the folks at the junkyard cutting lead, it never got asked or discussed, as I went there with a 2"x4"x1" piece of lead. As it turns out, the lead pigs that my supplier has are a mix of wheel weights, both clip on, and stick on, and I'm not going to get involved with them, so it's all a moot point. And there's a difference between playing dumb, and being dumb. At the scrap yards I went to (as I imagine at most of them) there were the laborer types, and the management types, I wouldn't expect the laborers to understand anything about knowing what alloy a chunk of lead was, but the management types certainly should have known what I was talking about.

Back when I was in the leatherworking machinery business, I knew not only how to build our machinery, but also what it was used for, what it's capabilities were, AND those same capabilities of the competition's machinery. Could I tell you every step involved in making a saddle, or a gun holster, or a belt, yes, even those that had nothing to do with the machinery we made. I would think that somebody that bought and sold metals scrap or otherwise should at least have known what I was talking about. Perhaps not have the equipment, but at least have an understanding that there is such a thing as an alloy, and that what looks like lead could have other metals in it, or what looks like steel could have other metals in it, I don't think that's asking too much of a person in that line of work.

Perhaps those people have got a different attitude than I would expect them to have from dealing with the dregs of society for so long, sort of how cops tend to think of everyone that's not a cop as a potential 'bad guy'. In my business experience I learned not to judge people by face value. I've seen people come in wearing expensive clothes, talking a good talk, but didn't have $20.00 in their pocket. I've also seen a guy walk in, wearing a Tee shirt, and old jeans, talking about wanting to buy an entire factory worth of machinery, and when told that to properly start setting up a factory would require a $50k investment, he pulled it out of his pocket, in cash! (this was back before Big Brother needed to be informed if a citizen is carrying more than $10k in cash) That same guy went on to spend $250k setting up a complete factory in TX.

As I mentioned before, I treat people with the same respect I would expect them to treat me. I don't think I talk 'down' to anyone, and if it seems that I do, that's probably just another example of how typed words on an internet forum can't & don't come across the same as live face to face conversation.

[btroj]

I don't think it has to do with another thread. I just don't like calling someone a moron because they treated you poorly. The yard you went to views all lead alloy as lead. So what? I bought a bunch of monotype for the same price as wheel weights. Ds I think the guy is a moron for saying lead is lead? Nope, I was quite pleased.
We need to realize that we are small time operators in the metal industry. I may go buy 500 pounds of lead but the big boys may buy 5 tons. I don't expect to get the royal treatment, it is a scrap yard after all. I ask what they have, get a price, and buy or leave. No more, no less.

I was just a bit put off by the tone of your original post. Nothing against you, I just prefer to keep things in context and not blame others for my false assumptions.

Brad

[jsizemore]

I'm going to point out the obvious since nobody else has.

Mike, aren't you one of the scrapyards 'clinentele'?

I always try to remember such things when the name calling starts. I try to learn new things every day so I'm less of a moron.

[468]

"In my business experience I learned not to judge people by face value." Thats exactly what you're doing. You referred to the scrap yard's clientelle as "crack heads" and "dregs of society".

"... at least have an understanding that there is such a thing as an alloy, and that what looks like lead could have other metals in it" As I mentioned in a previous post, all they need to know is if its hard, soft, or mixed. They do not care what the alloy is for their purposes. They do not sell lead based on the specific alloy. They don't need to know. It is your own ignorance that is causing your frustration. I'm not calling you a moron, just pointing out the fact that you are not knowledgable regarding various metal alloys, sorting metals, or the scrap business in general.

Don't be so quick to pass judgement just because you didn't get what you wanted, or because "the folks at the scrap yards were looking at me like I was growing a third arm out of my back," :takinWizn judgemental peolple.

[MikeS]

Ok, this thread is really serving no purpose. Several people posting here have taken it upon themselves to 'know' how I talked to / treated the people at the scrap yards. What I say here, or how I think about somebody doesn't reflect on how I treated them. So far I've typed and erased this message 4 times, I can't put my thoughts into words at the moment, so I'm going to leave this whole topic aside. Nobody here knows me, or what I think say or do, and I don't know anyone here, so everyone is free to think what they want of me, I really don't care.

[btroj]

We don't know you at all Mike. That is true. What we do know is the way your original post came across. Describing the customers of the yard as "crack addicts" and the employees as "morons" certainly doesn't come across well.

Had you said " I was certainly not impressed with the way the guy at the scrap years treated me when I asked for a compositional analysis of the lead I had. He looked at me like I was nuts or something.". That does not come across as derogatory or inflammatory at all.

It is all about the way things come across on a forum such as this. I understand very well as I have learned over the years that sarcasm can easily come across as being an a$$.

I hold no I'll will towards you. Chalk this up as a learning experience about this site. People here tend to get riled up over failure to be polite.