Lee buckshot mold, Experiences ect.

[mckutzy]

I just got the Lee buckshot mold. I have the slug molds and now this one, kinda completes the shotgun collection.
h t tp://leeprecision.com/xcart/00-Buckshot-Mold.html
I did some casting with it and having no experiences with a larger capacity mold, I have some questions about this for the shotgun casters crowd...

My setup
- lyman electric melter
- hand cast ladle
- lead- almost pure and cleaned ( unfortunately I have no thermometer to tell temp. I guess and it seems to work for other casting.)
- buckshot mold- cleaned with alcohol and smoked with a Bic

I am getting 1 or sometimes 2 cavities filled(of a string of 3), rarely 3 full cavities filled(I got 6pcs of 3 strings total out of about ~250pcs aprox.) After the first, the next cavity at the gate the lead looks to freeze off and it stops with just a little tail.

I reckon the mold is hot but I never done casting with a big mold like this before. Is it hot enough? Do you have to have this like smoking hot to use properly? (I had placed the mold on the melter for quite a bit before I started and I had a cadence of production to keep it hot.)

I had not see any mold vents to clean like some other molds, so I dont know if venting is a problem.

I have some buck to try to shoot but it was quit the effort to get this far. Some advice from users and experts would be great.

[longbow]

Two things:

1) You need to cast faster and/or turn up the heat a bit.

My first casting session started out much as you describe with one or two of the cavities filling or nearly filling even after pre-heating on a hot plate. I made sure my lead was good and hot (I don't have a thermometer either so judge by eye ~ when the lead gets a golden sheen to it I know it is "hot" enough). After that it is all in casting rhythm to keep up a steady pace and get the mould up to temperature.

I normally cast at a rate that results in slightly frosty boolits or in this case buckshot. Once the mould got up to temp, the balls tended to break apart as I dropped the strings out of the mould. It took a few casts because the lead mass is fairly small. Longer pre-heat would have helped too.

2) Pure lead isn't the best choice for buckshot.

Buckshot should be hard so it doesn't deform badly in the barrel. Soft lead buckshot will probably perform okay but will likely give larger groups than hard shot due to the deformation.

If you don't have antimony, wheelweights, or even range scrap some tin will help to both harden the lead somewhat and help it flow as well. You can add bar solder to get the tin.

My results are with wheelweights and range scrap.

Longbow

[JIMinPHX]

I just got a chance to mess with one of these things for the first time, so I thought that I'd post what I saw.

First of all, the mold showed the typical lack of attention to detail that many people have come to expect from Lee, but for the price, I still think that this thing was a bargain. There were some burrs around 2 of the sprue holes. One such hole is shown below. I also found it strange that the sprue holes between cavities would be around .075" in diameter (& not really round) but the sprue hole on top was more like 3/16". The top ball in each string of 3 is left with a large meplat. Conversely, the bolts in the top of the mold were of much better quality than I have seen in the past. They looked machine turned & the threads certainly looked single pointed. That's pretty classy for a mass produced fastener. There was also just a tad more clearance between the pivot bolt head & the sprue plate. The wavy washer actually had some play in it. The sprue plate is now sporting a black finish rather than the brown anodizing that I have seen in the past. It may be a little more slipery than the old coating, or I may just have gotten the Bullplate to it a little quicker than usual. The cross hatch venting was nicely done.

[JIMinPHX]

After a quick clean up with some Brakleen & a rag, then a quick dab of hi temp grease for initial lube, I set up to cast with it for the first time. The initial results casting with recovered bird shot alloy were a little frustrating.

I started with the pot temp around 800. I left the mold to sit on top of the pot for about 10 minutes to warm up with a glove over the top of it. After that, I started casting. As usual, the first few sprues hardened up a little too fast & when I threw them back into the pot, the pot temperature started to drop a little. After about 20 casts, the sprues were hardening at a normal speed & the pot temp was down to around 700F, which would later prove to be a good temperature. I made a quick little pit stop here & dusted the mold with her first coat of Bullplate. Fill out in the top cavity was usually pretty good, but the bottom two cavities in each string of 3 varied from very bad to almost not at all. After about another 50 casts, this did not change & by now the top cavities were throwing frosty balls. I then started to pressure cast. That was the trick that got me 3 good balls per string more often than not. I air cooled most of what I cast, but water dropped about a half pound just so that I'd have a few really hard ones to experiment with. When I was finished casting, I hit her with a second coat of Bullplate before putting her up for the night.

The difference in the shape of the top balls compared to the other two is significant. I expect that the big flat spot on the top ones will make them want to not flay very straight. I'm going to separate them & load them in their own shell so that I can compare the way they pattern vs. the more round ones. I also kept several of the lower 2 balls together as a pair. I'm going to load a few shells with pairs that are stuck together & see how they fly. It should be interesting. I'll try to remember to post my results when I see how they fly.

I'm kind of wondering if that top ball is really supposed to have that big flat spot on it, or if I just got one of Lee's "special" molds. Regardless, it may be a good thing. If the flat spot balls spread faster than the round ones do, then I may be able to custom tailor the spread rate of my shells as I see fit. It might be useful to have long range & short range shells to choose from when hunting in conditions of variable cover.

[mckutzy]

Interesting results, mine were similar. The top ball has a significant flat much like it were a musket ball. I never really thought about having them separated for the tops and bottoms, for different loads.
I have a bit of experience with Injection molding of plastics. One thing when I see this it reminds me that it seems that the gate need to be larger. The freezing off almost instantly suggest this, although the heat issue and alloy are a factor, Im almost tempted to run a drill size up on the gate in between the balls, hopefully that would allow better fillout of the lower cavities.

[JIMinPHX]

At the risk of sounding like the beginning of a redneck fairly tail - you'all ain't gunna believe this. I tested a few shells loaded with the buckshot from this mold & the worst quality buckshot balls actually patterned the best.

The load was 2.2cc (about 18 grains) of Green Dot with a W209 & a WAA12 in a Winchester Universal Hull with a fold crimp. The 00 buck shot was stacked in 4 pairs inside the shot cup. This is a pretty modest load. It's probably around 1100-1200fps at best.

I loaded 2 shells each of
(Top Left two targets) Nice round, well filled out balls
(Top Right two targets) pairs of balls that were still stuck together, well filled out
(Bottom Left two targets) Poorly filled out balls with some droop to them
(Bottom Right two targets)top cavity buckshot with 3/16" flat,

The gun had a 27.5" barrel with a .704" diameter muzzle. I don't know what choke that diameter translates to. The barrel isn't stamped with the choke info. The targets were shot at 10-yards. The targets are 8.5 x 11".

[mckutzy]

Unreal.
What is the distances shot at and what is the size of the group?
I think that choke might be a full, that reads close to my full choke at .701.

[JIMinPHX]

Mckutzy, the range was 10-yards. I threw the targets away already so I can't measure them, but the paper was 8.5 x 11", so you should be able to judge roughly what size the patterns were just be looking at them. The top left two targets only have 5 of 8 balls hitting the paper. The rest of the targets had at least 7 & probably 8 hits each.

[Intel6]

I used one of the Do it moulds that make slingshot pellets. Since it had no sprue plate I had to cut them off with wire cutters. I was worried about the nub messing and how well they were going to shoot. They patterned almost as good as Federal Tactical buck so they proved me wrong. Not surprised they did so well.

[shotman]

jim
I will sell the round ones and keep the top lopp sided one rick
Surprizingly I found some what same making shot. I got a bad bunch of lead and the shot was a real mess. about half was what I would call trash. had tear drop ,pop corn looking , doubles . real messy . buddy asked he could have it. So he loaded about 10 boxes. of the trash
I have a home trap thrower
He was breaking 20 and better everytime
I have not cast with mine but will and let you know how it works with ???
You guess

[pls1911]

I has similar results using the same components over 19.5 graines green dot.
So long as the Lee shot was round enough to roll off a slightly tilted cutting board, they're good enough. Minor irregularities like a mini nib or a flat spot made no difference in my testing.
80 pellets from 10 rounds ALLwould be inside a 6" circle at 20 yards....
Win AA hull/Win 209 primer/ Win WAA-12 wad/ 19.5 gr. Green Dot./ 8x 00 buckshot/TIGHT 8 point crimp. WUPS coons & coyotes...
Want it hard? Heat treat it!!

[mckutzy]

I forgot to post my result of my shooting on the 21( the end of the world day )

This is what I got..
Mossberg 535.
Improved cylinder Choke, cast lead 00buck
25m - 24" pattern
15m - 8"
10m - 6"
5m - 2" (or slightly smaller)
Measured aprox. We didnt have any tape-measure with us.
I shot about 20-22 shells.

I might be able tighten this up by using a different choke, my first time using this so I shoot my most open first then Ill see what happens later.

[shotman]

well run about 5 lbs
had the Kroil on .
as said molds need a tune up . lots of mill flash
mold has to be very hot to get a good fill on all 6 holes
I got free fall on the ones that didnt need "deburred" need to work them some.
With ww mix all broke when dropped
This is first use so next will tell
Oh you need to pin the handles as they are loose. and really need lead at 800+ and run to where have to hold mold a few to let it harden on plate . Balls will frosty but dont matter to a mexican

[1longshot]

My experience with this mold is pretty good, (To me)

I heat my mold on a hot plate before use. I have been using mystery alloy. Only working with stuff I have got from other people with a little Lino type thrown in for good measure. I am working with a RCBS 10lb lead pot over propane burner and ladle pouring. My temp is running from 6-700 deg. I usually get about 90% fill out of all mold cavities or better. The first 5-10 fills usually give results as pictured above, but after that the balls start coming out better.

The only bad part about this is the balls do not fall out by themselves upon opening the mold. I have to hit the mold with a wood stick or pull them out with diagonal cutters. Usually the latter is what I do.

So far I have made about 30lbs of supper hard buckshot.

I have take the advice of someone else here and use graphite my Thumbler's tumbler and let run for about 3 hours directly after casting and my buckshot looks like highly polished ball bearings!

Instead of using powdered graphite already made I get lead refills for carpenters pencils and grind them on a fine mill bastard over the buckshot while it is in the tumbler container. I tried regular graphite from the store before this and the homemade graphite produced much shinier balls, and it saves money over buying powdered graphite.

I was more liberal with my homemade graphite probably adding 2cc of graphite to a 3 lb load of balls. Just a rough estimate.

[Gunslinger1911]

I got one of these a week ago - pretty cool.

With most moulds I pour with the mould below the spout about a inch and get good fillout, with the buckshot mould I had to go to pressure pouring (mould aginst the spout). Got 100% fillout and most fall right out of the mould.

Kids are having a blast with their slingshots !!

[shotman]

1 long the Kroil will cure the drop problem. the onlt 2 I had a sticky was the 2 that I had to cut the mill flash off. I havent polished those yet

[JIMinPHX]

With most moulds I pour with the mould below the spout about a inch and get good fillout, with the buckshot mould I had to go to pressure pouring (mould aginst the spout).

Same here

[JIMinPHX]

I tried some of this buckshot in a .410 with some pretty strange results. More on that here - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...37#post1293537

[DrB]

Mold prep:

Cleaned with brake cleaner and a qtip.
Lightly sprayed with frankford arsenal mold release
Used brake cleaner on a qtip to clean molds release from mold half faces so vent lines were clean.
Preheated mold by.dipping corner in lead
Lubed with beeswax at sprueplate, hinge, etc.

After these steps I had good fillout on most cavities with the first pour. The two cavities closest to the handle seemed colder and took a couple of casts to fill out. No problem with dropping the cast shot. I think after the first couple of pours I probably had less than five incomplete pours (my fault) in 15 pounds of pure dead soft lead. Before the molds had really gotten nice and hot my best pour seemed to be like 750F or greater. Once the mold was nice and hot 700F or hotter seemed to work fine.


After casting the lead balls, I used a harbor freight dual drum tumbler to break up the triplets (3) into (2,1). I loaded three pounds in each drum (rated capacity).

It took almost exactly 1 hour and 45 minutes for each of my three pound loads to separate 100% into (2,1)s. It takes in excess of eight hours for the (2)s to break into (1,1)s. At eight hours the (3)s will break into about 90% (1,1,1)s and 10% (2,1)s.

Pellets tumbled in this way have a notable faceted/polygonal appearance. I don't yet see any disadvantage to their slight surface change... Don't think it will be a big deal.

It may be quicker to break the pellets up with the tumbler if a half pound ingot or similar is included to help fatigue the pellets apart.


was wondering if it was necessary to separate the double pellets into singles at all? Any experience? I figure loading is quicker when stacking doubles, and perhaps the choke or balloting loads will break them up going down the tube.


Anyway, that's what I've found so far. tumbling saves time over manually splitting triplets.

[JIMinPHX]

was wondering if it was necessary to separate the double pellets into singles at all? Any experience? I figure loading is quicker when stacking doubles, and perhaps the choke or balloting loads will break them up going down the tube.

See post #6