Clays

[John Van Gelder]

Any one using Clays in reloading .357 loads. My results with this powder seem to be very much lower than the listings in the Hodgdons manual. I am using a 158 gr. cast bullet and the recommended load of 4.6 gr. of Clays. The manual lists this load at 1079 fps, and 33,600 cup. A fairly high pressure load. According to my chronograph I am getting just over 800 fps and nothing to indicate pressures in the 30K range.

My results when using 700x also a Hodgdons powder are much closer to the published values. All are fired through the same gun with the same ambient conditions.

Thanks
John

[RobS]

Is your powder Clays or Universal Clays?

[geargnasher]

My "Go-to" load for .38 Special is 2.7 grains of plain Clays, worked so well I never experimented further. Never used it in .357, but your cylinder gap or throat sizes might be throwing off the numbers vs. the universal receiver more than the 700x did. It might also be that you have a heavy lot of Clays and a light lot of 700X, hard to tell. Clays is very touchy with seatiing depth, also. Very slight changes in free case volume affect pressures greatly.

Gear

[John Van Gelder]

RobS

It is "Clays".

My question is has anyone used this powder in the .357 and do they have chronograph data. I had a slight suspicion a had a mislabeled container, but I have found pictures of Clays and it appears to be what I have.

There are considerable differences between test barrels and real world revolver results, and I was just looking for that information.

thanks

[Muddy Creek Sam]

John,

GP100man has loaded and shoot a lot of Clays in 357mag. I know he has a Chrony and may be able to answer your questions. Rich is a great guy and very knowledgeable.

Hope he can help,

Sam

[RobS]

RobS
I had a slight suspicion a had a mislabeled container, but I have found pictures of Clays and it appears to be what I have.

There are considerable differences between test barrels and real world revolver results, and I was just looking for that information.

thanks

I was thinking a mislabel at first too.

[noylj]

My comments are:
1) referenced velocities in manuals are often higher than you or I will ever see and, even without that, your gun with a given bullet and charge weight might produce 1100fps and the same ammunition through my gun might give 800fps. There are chamber dimensions, throat dimensions, barrel gap, forcing cone dimensions and geometry, and barrel dimensions and length (and voo-doo)
and
2) did you work up to this load or just decided to go with it? Clays in a .357Mag case could be lost in all that volume and IS NOT the powder I would choose to use. In some listings, Clays is just a little faster than WST or 231/HP38. Others have it even faster with Red Dot and 700X. Of all the powders in that burn rate that I have testing, Clays is the spookiest for pressure spikes.

[lead slead]

+1 for what noylj said.

[runfiverun]

airc when i worked with clays in the 357 i had to get at the top end before it come around in the accuracy dept.
your velocity seems quite low versus the published however the data may have been done in a 12" bbl.
i have seen data from 4" vented test bbls up through 14" in the 357.

[John Van Gelder]

noylj

Thanks for the response.. I know about the the variables, one of the reason I have a chronograph. Because you never know how a load will perform in any particular fire arm until you shoot it thorough the "screens".

What I am asking is for chronograph data from folks who have actually loaded Clays in the .357.

runfiverun

Hodgdons does not bother to mention what sort of firearm they used to produce their results for the manual, since the pressure readings are in copper units then it is probably a Universal Test receiver.

Thanks again for the responses.

[fredj338]

One thing I have learned shooting revolvers over a chronograph, the vel swings can be quite wild form one to another. I have 4 diff 4" 357mags, all give diff vel with identical loads. One is a 125-150fps slower than the others, and that even changes w/ certain bullet /powder combos. Test bbls are generally tighter tolerances than revolvers. Your bbl length, cyl size & cyl gap all playa huge roll in final vel.

[John Van Gelder]

fredj338

Once again thanks for the response.. After 50+ years of reloading, I am well aware of the variables..just want a little conformation from someone who has used the powder and has chronograph data..

Usually test receivers are bolt action affairs, that are bored and threaded at the chamber area for a transducer or a copper crusher adapter. It is the two birds with one stone thing you get velocity and pressure all in one step.

Lyman uses a 4" vented test barrel, so their results are a lot closer to what one will get in a revolver. I do not have the latest Lyman manual so I do not know if they have Clays as one of the options. Lyman tends to steer away from the faster burning powders in magnum loadings.