Is it rocket science to cast without a thermometer?

[Canuck Bob]

I'm dying to start casting but circumstances require spending almost no money on it. I'm gonna get a LEE soup can for my 32-20 and become a lapping lee-menting guy if required.

I got an old hot plate and some SS kitchen pots. 100 #s of #9 magnum shot for a super deal and some clean recycled roofing lead.

Standard advice is get a thermometer. If it is neccesary I'll add it to the list.

I got thinking there must be a few guys here who cast great bullets for years without all the great modern gear thats available. Can casting temperature be a learned skill without a thermometer?

[telebasher]

Spend a little more than what a thermometer would cost and invest in a Lee electric pot. Ive been casting for over 40 years and I've never had a thermometer. Ive developed a feel for each mould and can sense when more or less heat is needed. After you get a little experience you will understand what I mean. Just get started and have fun. When I started the was no internet with sites such as this for explaining what or how to do this. I bet most if not all the old hands here at this site learned the same way, we jumped in an learned the hard way. Its still fun and enjoy learning new ways of doing things , just be safe and keep good notes.

[MT Gianni]

A thermometer is a masters level tool not a bachelor of casting one. Some may even get a Doctorate without it. Sounds like you can get started with what you have if your hot plate will hit 750F. If not go with a Lee pot. If it will melt your lead, I would get a Lyman dipper rather than a Lee just because of volume but many have started with a Lee dipper.

[runfiverun]

you can learn to judge what you need by doing.
i rarely get out my thermometer any more and go by mold/casting feel, and color, quite often.
my most often used pot does have a regulated dial on it that i have set in the range i use with a thermometer.
but, the other two i use less frequently don't have nothing but numbers and i just go by feel on them usually.
i have seen other guy's use a strip of paper to judge thier temp.
a thermometer is a good tool to have though.

[sagamore-one]

I cast for over 25 years with out a thermometer . I have one now, but use it mainly for trouble shooting and fine tuning. You can do quite well with no thermometer... just pay attention and learn from your mistakes and problematic casting sessions. I also find very, very limited use for hardness meters.
The suggestion about the inexpensive Lee electric pot is well worth considering.

[beagle]

I cast for almost 50 years before I bought one. I guess you might be able to make a few without one. Now, I only use mine when I'm having problems or want to rest my furnace settings.

My first attempts were outside over a small wood fire and I made some pretty good 311291s that way. Then, I moved in on the electric stove. Management quickly ran me out of that and forced me to get a pot./beagle

[btroj]

I manage just fine without one. No intention of getting one.
I would suggest that you worry more about learning to cast good bullets and how to load and shoot them without trouble before worrying snout things like a thermometer.
People managed for many, many years without thermometers so I don't think they are required by any stretch.

Brad

[docone31]

What would I use a thermometer for!
I never used one. I use the six second freeze rule. Faster than six seconds, too cool. Longer than six seconds, take a break from the casting.
Fluxing does not work, if it is not hot.
Get a 20lb Lee Bottom pour pot. I have over 10yrs on mine and it is still working well.
No drips either. I spin the spout each time I shut down. I shut down with it full of lead.

[mooman76]

What's a thermometer? How the boolits drop will tell you turn it up. Start out hot. The boolits will get a little frosty and it should tak about 4 or 5 second for the lead puddle on the sprue. Once it starts taking longer, gradually turn the heat down until it's consistant. If it starts cooling too quick, turn it back up some.

[gray wolf]

Notice the guy's that don't use a thermometer have been casting for a long time.
They don't cast good bullets by accident,
they have paid there dues through years of experience.
I hesitate to use the word critical, but, melt temp. and mold temp are very important to producing good bullets. Ambient air temps can make a difference in how your pot reacts.
What worked yesterday may not work today, when adding metal to your pot the temp drops
Will you know when it's back up to temp ? As the metal is used in your pot the temp may go up, will you know how much ?
I cast for years without one, now I have one and I consider it a very worth while 30 $$
( can be had for less )
As a new caster why not take the guess work out of at least one of the things you will have to learn. I say get one, let it tell you what your pot is doing instead of guessing.
So I don't get flamed here Let me say again, there are many folks casting good bullets without a thermometer

and yes it can be done. But I think your learning curve will be faster with one.
Just my 2 cents

[stubshaft]

Been casting for over 35 years and also, never owned a thermometer. Gray wolf does make a point about the learning curve being shortened by the use of one. Most of the noob photos of boolits usually show the same thing, mold or alloy too cold. It takes a while to develop the "feel" for when the mold and alloy is at the right temperature and even how fast or slow to cast. Early shooters like Ned Roberts and Schoyen were anal about the temperature of their melt, to the point of not adding their sprues back into the pot. But in all of the books and accounts they wrote or were written about them, there was no mention of them using a thermometer.

[btroj]

I still don't think it is a necessary tool for even a new guy. Learn to watch the signs of problems and how to read them. A pot thermometer will tell you nothing about the mold temp.
I worry that a new guy will get so hung up on temp readings that they fail to watch other potential problem areas.
Casting is not rocket science at all. You get the lead molten, you heat the mold, and you pour lead into the mould.
Get one if you want but I certainly don't think it is required. I prefer to go old school and learn the signs of problems and how to fix them. Seems to me that knowing the temp tells you what you have but it does not tell you if that matters or what to do with the info.

New guy need to keep it simple.

Brad

[Char-Gar]

I have been casting for over 50 years and have never owned or used a thermometer. If the bullets are not well filled out, I turn up the heat until they are. I can't figure out why I would need such a gizmo. Who cares what the dial or scale on the thermometer says. The only thing is how the bullets drop from the mold.

[btroj]

Chargar said it all. Good bullets are good bullets.

[nes4ever69]

i dont own one. i just learned to turn the knob on my lee pot down so the coil comes on less. sure would be nice to take guess work out of things, but its not something i considered a must need.

when the spruce takes too long to cool, things are to hot. like others have said mold temp is critical.

to each their own, thats just my 2 cents.

[canyon-ghost]

Casting thermometer? What is that? I can tell the lead temp by how it casts when the mold come up to temperature. Ain't skeered.

Ron

[kelbro]

It's a one-time expense that will shorten the learning curve and help keep your consistency up. Yes, there are other factors that contribute to good bullets but a good thermometer reduces variables and makes life a lot easier.

[geargnasher]

I still don't think it is a necessary tool for even a new guy. Learn to watch the signs of problems and how to read them. A pot thermometer will tell you nothing about the mold temp.
I worry that a new guy will get so hung up on temp readings that they fail to watch other potential problem areas.
Casting is not rocket science at all. You get the lead molten, you heat the mold, and you pour lead into the mould.
Get one if you want but I certainly don't think it is required. I prefer to go old school and learn the signs of problems and how to fix them. Seems to me that knowing the temp tells you what you have but it does not tell you if that matters or what to do with the info.

New guy need to keep it simple.

Brad

+1 Brad. The thing is, a new guy needs to understand the relationship of alloy vs. mould temperature, and the visual cues to both. If the lead will pour out of the furnace or dipper, it's hot enough. The OP was talking about using a hotplate and SS pot, so that means ladle-casting. In a way, that is an easy way to start because it gives the opportunity to observe and control the temp of the alloy directly, without looking at the bottom-pour spout all the time. Being involved with the alloy by ladle casting out of a pot will give quite an education. What is important about this setup is NOT OVERHEATING THE ALLOY. The initial problems will be wrinkled boolits from a cold mould, or at the least poor fillout from a too-cool mould. The universal advice will be to get the alloy hotter, which will make it build dross like crazy. The actual issue will be that the new caster is only making about one boolit a minute and looking each one over rather than getting his butt in gear and ladling 3-4 a minute until the mould is hot enough to throw good boolits with an alloy that it barely 100 degrees over molten.

I use two different thermometers and a PID controller with calibrated thermocouple when I cast, it's just way too easy. Three years ago I got my first thermometer, but used it seldom, mainly for smelting. Now I won't be without one, although I can make decent boolits without one. The truth is there is no way to guess alloy temperature within 50 degrees when it's molten, and a 50 degree swing can make a huge difference in boolit weight, diameter, and quality.

Don't fool yourself that a Lee furnace will help. Alloy temp will swing 150 degrees between full and 1/4 full if you leave it on the same setting. If you don't believe that, it's because you never checked it with a thermometer.

I have been casting for over 50 years and have never owned or used a thermometer. If the bullets are not well filled out, I turn up the heat until they are. I can't figure out why I would need such a gizmo. Who cares what the dial or scale on the thermometer says. The only thing is how the bullets drop from the mold.

......I would say that how they shoot is the only thing. You have 30 years experience on me, and what ever your method is, I'm sure it's so ingrained you could do it in your sleep with rock-solid consistency. A new guy won't have that consistency, so might not be able to make as good a boolit with the same equipment you use. I find that I shoot better groups at long range when I cast with a thermometer and PID and keep the temp in a 5 degree window.

Gear

[MtGun44]

I would suggest that many newbies are overthinking this whole thing.

This is not rocket surgery, guys.

Get a Lyman cast bullet book. Read it all. Start casting. If you get wrinkly boolits after
the mold has time to warm up, up your temp a bit. Keep casting. If you get poor fill out,
try hotter or add a dab of tin. Keep casting. Don't smoke your mold. If you can't kill the
wrinkles with heat, you might have a bad batch of metal (very rare) or a dirty mold. Scrub
the mold with Comet and a toothbrush, dry and start again. You will get it right.

I've been doing it since 1975or 1976 and bought a thermometer some many years later.
It stays in the cabinet, haven't used it for decades except to try to figure out a batch of
mystery metal a few years back by freezing temp. You should spend your money on other
things instead of the thermometer.

Bill

[peerlesscowboy]

Like most of the other guys here, I've never used a thermometer either......been casting for 40 years plus. I've always used a Lyman electric bottom pour pot with a thermostatic temp control. There's more to it than just the correct melt temp, there's also mould temp which you control just as much by casting cadence as by melt temp.

John C. Saubak