After 30 yrs Instr/supervising WEPs sold most to reload

[Catshooter]

cwo,

Now I have no first hand knowledge, but I can't imagine a single reason the BMG couldn't be loaded with cast. Not one. I was (still am) very taken with that round but finally realized I couldn't afford it. But I did quite a bit of research on it. You don't have to go full throttle either, you know. The round is big, scary and expensive, but it's really just a scaled up .30-06. There are quite few on this site that shoot full loads in their '06s with boolits. The 50 runs what, 2600-2700 fps? No real difference between it and an '06. Might take you a bit of learning, but it's very doable I'm sure.

It would be interesting to see if the barrel would stabilze a four or five hundred grain cast at something less than about 1500 feet. Should be able to shoot without a gas check then. Could probably do it with some other powders too. Like using Unique or Bullseye in the .45-70 I'm sure there'd be the equivelent for the 50.

You have an RCBS Ammomaster set up for reloading the 50, correct? I'll bet you that that press is strong enough to swage bullets. Call RCBS and ask 'em

By the way, your Piggyback won't load anything much taller than 7.62 x 39. No way it'll do the Lapua.

NEI makes at least one mould for the BMG. There are a number of mould makers on this site that will make you moulds. Slug your barrel, read on here 'til about four am for a week and you'll be ready to go!

Good luck.


Cat

[CWO4GUNNER]

Getting back into range bench shooting after all these years I had to order some new and up dated stuff, this is where the UPS Man is sort of like Santa clause bringing cool stuff to your door seemingly free lol ( I wish). Never having owned or used a tumbler except during my Navy/CG service time, it was time to buy my own and today my Frankford Arsenal Quick-N--EZ tumbler/separator kit arrived. I realize now that with the size cases of 50 BMG I could have saved money just buying the tumbler only, but the separator will come in handy for .308 and .338 Win as well. Since Im still waiting for bullets, primers, and powder, no need to try it out yet. But I had to try out the other item I got today mostly becasue I was so important to long range shooting, my new spotting scope! I sold my old 1982 Bushnell spotting scope & pod at the gun show for $50. I know it sounds like a crazy low price and it only lasted on the table 20 minutes but I had used it so much for personal use and training for so many years that the lens coating were a bit worn and anything detail past 200 yards was hazy and hard to see clearly and I used to strain to and guess what my 50 BMG target holes were at 400 yards so it was good riddance for the old classic Bushnell.

I was apprehensive to try out this new 22-60X100mm spotting scope that came in an over packed 3 foot box and the scope itself 19 inches long and 5 pounds. Since it was dusk I though no better time to test it out. Picking the farthest object I could find (transformer pole 800-1000 yards away) using max magnification, I really did not expect much in the way of definition and expected some distortion. But I must admit I was almost shocked at the clarity and brightness, not nearly as crisp and bright as my Zeiss 3-9 at closer range, but light-years better then my Busnell spotter even when new. I could clearly see the bolts on the transformer 800-1000 yards away without distortion or even around the edges with the sun only minutes from the horizon, very -very impressive for a $300 spotting scope. Of all the bargain spotting scopes I researched for the price of $300 shipped the Celestron 52252 as reviewed is a winner.

The largest aperture scope in the Ultima line, the 100mm Ultima offers more than 50% brighter images than the 80mm, allowing for better performance in low light conditions. The 100mm refractor features excellent multi-coated optics packed into a portable and durable refractor design and comes standard with a 22-66x zoom eyepiece. This series was designed to perform well in a range of viewing situations, making it a great all-around optical instrument. You’ll love it for observing nature and long distance spotting. The green rubber optical tube allows for subtle observation in any nature environment. Ultima spotters are a great companion for any nature or outdoor enthusiast.
Features: -Angled spotting scope. -Ultima collection. -Color: Black. -100 mm Refractor. -Multi-coated optics. -45 Viewing angle. -22-66x Zoom eyepiece. -Sight tube for quick targeting. -Waterproof. -Soft carrying case. -Dimensions: 8'' H x 7'' W x 23'' D.

[schutzen]

I did not see him mention in a quick scan of the posts, so I will add: Check with Jeff Bartlett, Owensboro KY for .50 BMG components and powder. He usually has them, see below.

"C" = 100 - "M" = 1000

Item Description

.308 diameter
147 gr. Just in, 7.62mm NATO Ball M80 bullets. This is a FMJBT Spitzer, pulldown
Ball M80 by Lake City AAP. These are some of the nicest M80 bullets I have ever had.
Cleaned and polished. These are boattail design, FMJ, 147gr weight.
Available two ways; gilding metal (non magnetic) and GMCS (gilding metal clad
steel - magnetic). Both types are Lake City manufacture.
$16/100; $75/500; $125/1000 (magnetic)
$18/100; $85/500; $150/1000 (non magnetic)

152 gr. Original application is Cal. 30 Ball M2 (.30-06). This is a flat base Spitzer.
Ball M2 These are in great condition and polished. Pulled from Lake City .30-06 ammo.
$18/100; $85/500; $150/1000 (magnetic)
$20/100; $90/500; $160/1000 (non-magnetic)


.510 diameter
647 gr. Original application is Cal. 50 Ball M33. These are FMJBT Spitizers. Slight
Ball M33 pull marks with no issues, ready to load. Lake City manufacture.
$45/C; $210/500; $400/M; $700/2M; sample pack of 10 - $5.00





Jeff Bartlett1309 W. 9th St. • Owensboro, KY 42301
(270) 685-2432 (270) 685-2432 or (800) 714-6348 (800) 714-6348
FAX: (270) 684-6249


jeff@gibrass.com

[CWO4GUNNER]

I did not see him mention in a quick scan of the posts, so I will add: Check with Jeff Bartlett, Owensboro KY for .50 BMG components and powder. He usually has them, see below.

"C" = 100 - "M" = 1000

Item Description

.308 diameter
147 gr. Just in, 7.62mm NATO Ball M80 bullets. This is a FMJBT Spitzer, pulldown
Ball M80 by Lake City AAP. These are some of the nicest M80 bullets I have ever had.
Cleaned and polished. These are boattail design, FMJ, 147gr weight.
Available two ways; gilding metal (non magnetic) and GMCS (gilding metal clad
steel - magnetic). Both types are Lake City manufacture.
$16/100; $75/500; $125/1000 (magnetic)
$18/100; $85/500; $150/1000 (non magnetic)

152 gr. Original application is Cal. 30 Ball M2 (.30-06). This is a flat base Spitzer.
Ball M2 These are in great condition and polished. Pulled from Lake City .30-06 ammo.
$18/100; $85/500; $150/1000 (magnetic)
$20/100; $90/500; $160/1000 (non-magnetic)


.510 diameter
647 gr. Original application is Cal. 50 Ball M33. These are FMJBT Spitizers. Slight
Ball M33 pull marks with no issues, ready to load. Lake City manufacture.
$45/C; $210/500; $400/M; $700/2M; sample pack of 10 - $5.00





Jeff Bartlett1309 W. 9th St. • Owensboro, KY 42301
(270) 685-2432 (270) 685-2432 or (800) 714-6348 (800) 714-6348
FAX: (270) 684-6249


jeff@gibrass.com

Wow thanks! That is some great prices especially with insignificant pull marks which I hear don't affect the bullet fight at all. And I though I got a deal at $225 for 300 new SA FMJ, compared to LC $400 per 1000, I think I'm gonna be sick lol. Obviously that is what this forum is all about, great tips, supply sources, and solid information. I should have joined this forum months ago before selling or spending a dime. I'm sure I would have done much better, but better late then never. Thanks!

[Lloyd Smale]

i thought they eliminated the gunners mate rating in the CG and combined it with bowswains mate. Back in the early 70s i was on the TANEY and we used to shoot the 50s and let the brass go in the ocean. Couldnt you have snagged some empty brass or have a contact that still could get you some?

[Lloyd Smale]

Buy the way i guess its probably before your time but did you happen to know a gunners mate cheif named Cox. He was an old drinking buddy of mine.

[CWO4GUNNER]

Smale, I joined the Navy at the age of 17 in 74 was aboard the USS Midway CV41 at that time the navy was thinking of doing away with the Gunnersmate rating because of the idea that missile technology would replace deck guns but instead broke Gunnersmates into 3 ratings Gunnersmate Guns (GMG), Gunnersmare Missiles (GMM), and Gunnersmate Technicians (GMT). I decided to be and remain a GMG and thankfully so as it was way more fun performing the practical side of ordnance and gunnery (exploding & shooting) while those other guys wore the white smocks carried meters and clip boards, standing watches in CIC lol. I left the Navy in 82 as a GMG1 and joined the Coast Guard 4 months later as a GM1. The Coast Guard being far more challenging since your rating is your collateral duty and CG missions are your primary duty which are always ongoing such as, Search & Rescue, Immigration, National defense, Fisheries, navigational aids, boating safety, Hazmat/Oil pollution, Maritime Enforcement, Polar Ice Braking, Drug Interdiction, and now Homeland Security of which I am a founding member. I can honestly say that between all the countries and cultures I experienced while in the Navy and the satisfying missions I helped accomplish while in the Coast Guard, I have lived at least 2 lifetimes worth of great experiences which I am very thankful to God for.

The only Cox I recall was a quartermaster in the Coast Guard. It was much easier to remember people in the Coast Guard since it is so small, smaller then the NY police department about 37,000. In the coast Guard your so busy reacting to missions you cant hide, your either a self-starter or your out. Ironically the Coast Guard is made up primarily of prior service (Navy, Marines, AirForce, some army) high performers. But if it wasn't for the Navy I never would have traveled the word, rode camels in Pakistan or worked with TNT, Plastic explosives, and major Gun systems so large that the inside looked like a small bowling alley lol. I retired from the Coast Guard in 2004 at the age of 47.

[AZ-Stew]

When I joined in 69 the three ratings you mention (GM-G, M and T) already existed. I was a GMM (0988, Mk 13 GMLS) on active duty, but when I went into the Reserves I was with two SEABEE units and performed as a GMG training the troops with small arms and all the "fun" stuff the Marines use, like mortars, LAAW and M2 Browning. When I made Chief (85) they had dropped the third letter designator for CPO and all Chief Gunner's Mates were GMCs. I got to travel the world, as well, with two each Med and North Atlantic (Double Blue Nose) cruises, three Caribbean cruises and one West Pac. Got lots o' sea stories. See : http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/navy.htm for some photos.

Regards,

Stew

[CWO4GUNNER]

When I joined in 69 the three ratings you mention (GM-G, M and T) already existed. Got lots o' sea stories. See : http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/navy.htm for some photos.

Regards,

Stew

Well its been a while and the Nave was the smaller part of my service (8 of 30 Yrs), but yes I had to make a decision at the Navel Gun School in Great Lakes Ill (74) which of the 3 GM rating I was going to chose. Ironically in 1992 I returned to the same Navel Gun School while in the Coast Guard for refresher and the then new 76MM OTO Melara Gun system, reminded me of a big clock with its dual loading arms. And yes the South Pacific tours were eye opening to say the least. I made Chief in 92 and then Warrant W1 in 93, retired W4 in 04.

[Linstrum]

Hi, CWO4GUNNER, welcome to the board. I shoot .50 BMG using both cast and original military 647 grain copper jacketed projectiles. Don't be afraid of using once fired brass, that is pretty much all I can afford to shoot and in the forty-seven years of shooting I have never had one single major problem from using it, which I can't say the same thing for new brass at all, though! The cast loads I use for my .50 BMG rifles are made with the Lee 500 grain designed for the old .50-70 Government military cartridge, I size it to 0.003-inch over the slugged groove diameter while also installing the gas check. Since that particular mould doesn't have provisions for a gas check I machine the gas check annulus in my lathe before sizing. The cast loads are my low velocity plinkers for close up playing around and the jacketed loads are my full house loads for long distance business. I also shoot 643 grain tracers, but the weather has to be just right since I am in an area where the potential for a fire starting is a distinct possibility in the late summer. For my cast loads I use 154 grains of IMR 5010 surplus powder and the full house loads I use the same powder but it ranges from 154 grains on up into the 200 grain region. In the vicinity of a full house 2800 feet per second load, the specific amount of powder depends on the particular characteristics of the powder I am using since surplus powders often vary considerably from the burning rate characteristics of a canister grade powder. Consequently many surplus powders cannot be loaded using standard loading charts unless someone has tested the powders in question and compared them to some particular commercial canister grade powder. Fortunately most large lots of pull down and surplus powders are tested and have loading data recommendations using other canister grades of powder as a reference. For instance, IMR4895 is a very useful and common surplus and pull down powder but when some lots are tested they are found to behave very closely to IMR4064 instead, so IMR4064 data can be used with certainty and safety. Some lots of IMR5010 behave more like H1000 and the H1000 data is used instead. I have had lots of WC860 that behaved like WC872. I have not figured out what my current lot of IMR5010 acts like yet so I am starting out at 160 grains and I am carefully running up loads a few grains at a time and eventually going grain by grain while watching for pressure signs on the primers, which on the larger CCI number 35 primers we use is a bit different from the much smaller primers used for handguns and rifles. In short, in order to stay out of trouble, with any untested surplus or pull down powder, one needs to work loads up carefully instead of going by its listed powder type. It may seem a bit awkward, but by being careful a great many of us here use surplus powders without any problems or difficulty whatsoever.

I have two .50 BMG rifles. My first one I built using a 30-inch Lilja match barrel mounted in a large falling block receiver I built ten years ago for testing .17 caliber up to .50 BMG loads. My second rifle I just got about three months ago but have not had a chance to put it through its paces yet, it is a L.A.R. Grizzly Big Boar with a 36-inch match barrel. I wanted to get a 40-inch match barrel but they didn't have one and didn't know when they'd get one in. My 30-inch rifle I use as a cannon and it is mounted on a small wheeled carriage with pneumatic tires. For a photo go to:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=carriage

Click on the photo to enlarge it. The cannon in the photo is nearly identical to my .50 BMG 30-inch, the one in the photo shoots 12 gauge slugs and its barrel is slightly longer than my 30-inch .50 BMG.

RL986

[azcruiser]

Your in AZ you should check out Thunder bird cartridge company .tbirdammo.com/index.html
they sell loaded 50 cal FOR $2.95 EA or $2.45 ea for API AND $2.45 ea for tracer they also have pulled and sized 50 cal bullets for 40 cents ea .thats a deal I think .Their powder runs something like $88.00 for 8lbs .Their good guys to know and have deals from time to time

[skeet1]

I wonder if anyone has used a paper patched cast .50 BMG?

Ken

[midnight]

I had the same idea myself. Wheelweight bullets are too soft for the BMG as I have proved but patching them up with paper might work and not use up my linotype. Logic tells me that the muzzle brake most all BMGs have would be a problem but like most things I'll have to prove it to myself. I shoot a 833gr linotype bullet 2100fps and it shoots about the same as M33 ball. 2300fps was too fast.

Bob

[cajun shooter]

The firearms field like many other things in life bases a lot of the price you pay on demand. The big 50 BMG has a large following now as it is even fired in LR rifle matches. One source that might help you some that has not been posted is the owner of Dillon Products. He puts on a big auto weapons shoot every year that even has firing from a helo. Maybe he could provide a heads up on a better source for you to obtain your components. Welcome to the forum!

[azcruiser]

That film was called Machine Gun Magic think it was around late 1980s or early 1990s .Don't know if the still do the shoot . But if you lookup ww.mgshooters.com thats coming up in March
it's near Wikieup off hwy 93 that not to far from Bullhead City .

[PatMarlin]

you would think by now they would have developed a home casting system that cast a hollow or cast and drilled hollow copper jacket first and then a lead or lead & tin alloy poured inside the copper jacket from the bottom, viola one FMJ cast bullet.

Welcome aboard to cast boolit heaven CW! ..

I have done just that. Do a search on "Marlette" and you will see my 22 cal prototype.

I now have a different 4 cavity version, that I will be offering to the market for other calibers as well (hopefully this spring). It' s much refined from the the prototype version but the principals are the same.

I'm very excited about this. It will open up more options and experimentation for cast shooters.

[CWO4GUNNER]

Wow! I missed these new post thanks. I decided to wait for the polished 50 BMG LC brass I ordered (100/$44 shipped) before I try de-priming using the press. I have the reloading bench location and construction figured out and will start tomorrow. Today I was sidetracked talking with the IRS about filing special forms and red-tape for my late wife filing joint even though she is gone. Cant wait to get it behind me and hit the range again. Its good to know that there are so many here with a lot of resource know-how because I will stop my press if I see something that isn't working. Reloading the 50BMG will be out of necessity for both cost saving and therapy, a man's version of knitting LOL. My new $18 Lee beam 100 grain powder measure came in, I wanted to get a comparably priced electronic scale with 500 grain capacity but the reviews on accuracy for anything electronic costing less then $300 were pretty bad. So I guess Ill be measuring 3 times for each load LOL. For now Im trying to start out small and simple until I get some experienced so I can appreciate the correct upgrades if needed. Oh and I found my old /new Lyman 47th edition reloading handbook I never used so I'm doing the required reading

[Wayne Smith]

Getting back to the topic of swaging - I'll bet the press that U.P.North is making for $500 will swage a 50! Go down to the swaging section and look for his posts.

[CWO4GUNNER]

I pretty much know of what casting is and have this idea that swaging is press molding a bullet from a blank sort of like the way a coin is struck, is that about right? If so the bullet is still a mixture of lead and tin right without a full copper metal jacket, is that right? If so how do you deal with lead fouling in a high powered magnum rifle? Do you fire 3 cast/swaged rounds followed by a jacketed round to clean the barrel?

[JIMinPHX]

............Welcome to the board! Here's another place and in your home state: http://www.tbirdammo.com/index.html

...............Buckshot

That's interesting. I thought that T-bird only sold lead shot these days.