Sabot Design

[Ravenhawk57]

Done a lot of reading on shot gun slugs and sabots here. Does anyone produce sabot molds that are accurate or has anyone made any drawings or designs or does anyone have any that they would like to share. Looking for 2 3/4" 12 and 20 gauge. Any advice in this area would be appreciated. Thanks

[Matt3357]

Are you looking for molds for the slug, or like injection molds to make the actual sabot?

Matt

[Artful]

do you mean the Lyman air pellet shaped one
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/LYM...tinfo/1244112/

or Lee Drive Key
http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm...12%7C235%7C445

using standard wads or you looking for something like

[Ravenhawk57]

Am looking for a custom mold maker or person who has designed a sabot for a shotgun that is better than what is at hand on the market today. Having read most of the information here about the slugs, it seems there must be a better way just looking. Thanks

[Ravenhawk57]

do you mean the Lyman air pellet shaped one
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/LYM...tinfo/1244112/

or Lee Drive Key
http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm...12%7C235%7C445

using standard wads or you looking for something like

Am looking for something like this I think. Can you tell me more?

[Artful]

the cutaway is Winchester factory round
http://www.winchester.com/Products/s...ges/SXP12.aspx
launches 300 grain bullet at 2000 fps designed for rifled shotgun barrels

Remington makes some thing similar as does several other companies
but most use traditional
http://www.kompozitplus.com/bullets_eng.html

your might like this thread
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot46.htm

to get more exotic
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/pow...reloading.html

I would suggest looking at smooth bore boolit molds that stablize without spinning of a correct diameter to fit in an existing petalled wad. But that pretty much is what lyman and lee are trying to do for ya. But there are sabot's designed to hold conventional jacketed or cast boolit but the are generally for 30 cal holding 22 bullet, 45 cal holding 30 cal or muzzle loading designs 45 - 54 cal but not much available as reloading for 12 & 20 guage.
http://www.starsandstripesammo.com/e...tgun_slugs.pdf
does some stuff that may interest ya.

[Ravenhawk57]

the cutaway is Winchester factory round
http://www.winchester.com/Products/s...ges/SXP12.aspx
launches 300 grain bullet at 2000 fps designed for rifled shotgun barrels

Remington makes some thing similar as does several other companies
but most use traditional
http://www.kompozitplus.com/bullets_eng.html

your might like this thread
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot46.htm

to get more exotic
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/pow...reloading.html

I would suggest looking at smooth bore boolit molds that stablize without spinning of a correct diameter to fit in an existing petalled wad. But that pretty much is what lyman and lee are trying to do for ya. But there are sabot's designed to hold conventional jacketed or cast boolit but the are generally for 30 cal holding 22 bullet, 45 cal holding 30 cal or muzzle loading designs 45 - 54 cal but not much available as reloading for 12 & 20 guage.
http://www.starsandstripesammo.com/e...tgun_slugs.pdf
does some stuff that may interest ya.

Thanks Artful I will read all references

[eye shot]

I'm ready to order some Derlin tubing for 20ga. sabots, OD. .625, ID .500. and use .50 cal. bullet of choise. The bullet will determend the length of sabot then cut the tubing in two. Then use hard cards under sabot with bullet inside and powder gas cup under all. The old BRI's with two piece sabot was always the most accurate for me. Same with 12ga. Derlin tube OD .750--ID .500, but will have to turn the tube down about 11-12 thousands. Con the tubing isn't cheap. Warning try at your own risk.

[turbo1889]

As I understand it the OP is asking about reloading his own sabot slug loads and he wants real discarding sabots to use pistol bullets not "wad-slugs" like the Lyman 525 and the 7/8 and 1 oz. Lee slugs or non-discarding sabots like the hammer heads and pressure wad slugs.

There are two sources of ready made sabots for doing this that I know of:

~ BPI (Ballistic Products Inc.) http://www.ballisticproducts.com
~ CCS (Collet Cup Sabot) http://members.fortunecity.com/emmyoung/index.htm

Long story short, the BPI sabots are junk due to being too small of external diameter but can be made to work under duress by using oversize 51+ caliber bullets inside them instead of regular 50 caliber bullets and the CCS sabots are correctly designed and do work and work well but unfortunately are very expensive and you end up paying a buck or so for each one of the little plastic sabots which makes your finished loads about two bucks a shot when all said and done.

A better option is to just build your own sabots from scratch as eye shot has already mentioned above. He appears to be working with Derlin plastic tubing. I am using parallel hard-core, hand rolled paper tubes.

Are you looking for 12ga. or 20ga. ? If you want to do 20ga. then you can buy parallel hard-core, rolled paper tubes that are already the correct outside diameter (5/8") which significantly reduces the amount of time and hassle involved with making the paper tube style sabots I am working with. With the 12ga. though there isn't any such short-cut available.

[Ravenhawk57]

As I understand it the OP is asking about reloading his own sabot slug loads and he wants real discarding sabots to use pistol bullets not "wad-slugs" like the Lyman 525 and the 7/8 and 1 oz. Lee slugs or non-discarding sabots like the hammer heads and pressure wad slugs.

There are two sources of ready made sabots for doing this that I know of:

~ BPI (Ballistic Products Inc.) http://www.ballisticproducts.com
~ CCS (Collet Cup Sabot) http://members.fortunecity.com/emmyoung/index.htm

Long story short, the BPI sabots are junk due to being too small of external diameter but can be made to work under duress by using oversize 51+ caliber bullets inside them instead of regular 50 caliber bullets and the CCS sabots are correctly designed and do work and work well but unfortunately are very expensive and you end up paying a buck or so for each one of the little plastic sabots which makes your finished loads about two bucks a shot when all said and done.

A better option is to just build your own sabots from scratch as eye shot has already mentioned above. He appears to be working with Derlin plastic tubing. I am using parallel hard-core, hand rolled paper tubes.

Are you looking for 12ga. or 20ga. ? If you want to do 20ga. then you can buy parallel hard-core, rolled paper tubes that are already the correct outside diameter (5/8") which significantly reduces the amount of time and hassle involved with making the paper tube style sabots I am working with. With the 12ga. though there isn't any such short-cut available.

Thanks for the reply and the information. Looking for the 20 gauge info. Once I understand it will move to a 12. Could you tell me where you get the tubes. I already have the nylon tubes from a local source and some other materials I was looking at but didn't want to get into the machine process yet. Thanks again for the replys.

[DCM]

Have you looked at the sabots ballistic products offers?

[Red River Rick]

Have you looked at the sabots ballistic products offers?

DCM:

If you go back and check out some of the previous threads that have been posted of this forum, you'll find that those BPI 12 gauge have already been put thru the mill....................the end result is "THEY ARE JUNK".

Save yourself the headache and don't waste your time on the BPI sabots.

RRR

[hcpookie]

Long story short, the BPI sabots are junk due to being too small of external diameter but can be made to work under duress by using oversize 51+ caliber bullets inside them instead of regular 50 caliber bullets

That doesn't sound TOO bad... I wonder, could you paper patch a .50 bullet to get a better fit? Dumb idea?

A better option is to just build your own sabots from scratch as eye shot has already mentioned above. He appears to be working with Derlin plastic tubing. I am using parallel hard-core, hand rolled paper tubes.

Are you looking for 12ga. or 20ga. ? If you want to do 20ga. then you can buy parallel hard-core, rolled paper tubes that are already the correct outside diameter (5/8") which significantly reduces the amount of time and hassle involved with making the paper tube style sabots I am working with. With the 12ga. though there isn't any such short-cut available.

I'm trying to envision this - are you saying you're using a thick paper tube with no bottom to it? And I'm guessing a gas check underneath?

Now that I think about it, I have some plastic molding supplies... would it be as simple as making a tube with notches in it and putting it all on gas checks?

[dogtrainer12]

The projectile that rides in the sabot will have to be front heavy for it to remain stable in flight when fired out of a smooth bore shotgun (the improvements will be a much faster slug yet stable and hard hitting for the 12 gauge).

Look at the Lyman 525 grain (airgun pellet design) and try to come up with a pointed version of smaller diameter and weight--say, a 20 gauge slug inside of a 12 gauge sabot.

Design Methodology

Find the balance point of the Lyman slug by attaching a piece of thread around the slug and shifting it along the slug's body until you find the balance point. Note this balance point. Then make a cross section cutout (profile) of light cardboad of the Lyman slug and find its balance point using the same method and note its balance point.

Compare the balance point of the slug itself with the balance point of the slug's profile cutout and keep this relationship the same for the design you invision. If you follow the above suggestion the new design will remain stable in flight when fired out of a smooth bore shotgun.

The missing peice will be what 12 gauge wad will snuggly hold this new almost 20 gauge slug?

[Simonpie]

But there are sabot's designed to hold conventional jacketed or cast boolit but the are generally for 30 cal holding 22 bullet, 45 cal holding 30 cal or muzzle loading designs 45 - 54 cal but not much available as reloading for 12 & 20 guage.

Where do you find the 45 holding a 30 sabot? I've seen muzzleloader 45 holding 40, but I'm more interested in a cartridge round of 45/30.

Thanks.