A Grand for a Garand?

[StanDahl]

After Sunday's CMP match where I competed with my as-issued 1898 Krag using 314299's, I was talking to a fellow shooter. He's offering me an opportunity to buy a Garand and I'm wondering if it's a deal or not. It's a CMP Select grade (which isn't offered anymore), purchased in 2001 with all CMP paperwork. The parts look great, not worn, although I'm not very familiar with the Garand. The barrel gauges 1.5 at the breech and 0.5 at the muzzle. The stock looks good, nicely color-matched pieces, but no cartouche.

He says it's very accurate, indicating with his fingers that it shoots 2.5" groups at 100 yards. He wanted $1200, but since I'm such a great guy, he'll let me have it for $1000. He's throwing in a skinnier front sight blade, some 2 & 8 round clips, and maybe some ammo. He offered to let me shoot it in the match, but I wanted to see what I could do this time around with the Krag, and I did pretty well, if I do say so - at least by my standards.

I've known the guy for a while now, and he's always spoken highly of this rifle, and he's used it in matches before. Now he's got three and doesn't really need three. I could get one through the CMP, but they seem to be more than $1000 for a similar rifle, and it's sort of a crapshoot as to the wear on the bore. I don't really need a new caliber to load for, and I really like shooting the CMP matches with a Krag or '91 Mauser, but a Garand would be nice to have. Whaddaya think?

[BruceB]

Go to CMP's website at www.odcmp.com

Click on "sales", and then on the M1 Garand tab.

At the very bottom of the list of Garands is the "special grade". This rifle comes with a NEW barrel and NEW stock set, and all parts refinished....for $1000.

This would seem to be either a better rifle for the same money, or a bargaining point for reducing the price of the one you're looking at.

[StanDahl]

Thanks Bruce, I saw that one, but with new barrel and new stock, I didn't know how it compared to the "Select" grade that this guy is offering. I was wondering if the "Select" grade was more original, but without a cartouche, maybe not. The one being offered to me has a 3,000,000 serial number, so the receiver at least was originally issued in mid '45, for what that's worth.

I'll poke around the CMP site and see what it costs to actually buy the rifle. It says $22.95 shipping and handling, and it comes in a hard case, but I don't know if that's included in the price.

[madsenshooter]

Don't let your Krag know you're thinking of this! I let mine know I was going to get an AR, you should have heard them muttering to themselves about me! They didn't seem to mind the Garand since I had it before them, but I'm sure that if it had been a Johnny come lately, they'd have been calling me names.

[Jack Stanley]

You could define for yourself what matters to you most shootability or collectability . I forget now what the "select" grade meant but , if it had all military parts including the stock , it might be more collectable . In the past several years CMPs stash of real military stocks has dwindled to the point they have bought stocks from vendors . Collectors in the future will spot one from a distance , if ya think I'm foolin' , compare a Boyds stock to a 1943 Winchester stock or a 1954 H&R stock and you will see what I mean .

You alone can determine if it's a shooter , take him up on the offer to shoot it first , CMP won't give you that . If it will lay ten rounds near the space your hand takes up at two hundred yards when fired from prone and slung tight , then pay the man and be happy .

Just some things to ponder and you can go look up prices if ya want ;

My six million Springfield came to me with no cartouche but it's all military .
My four million gap letter IHC , rebuilt at Springfield in the sixties .
My H&R with all military (except stock) that I fit together and sent to DGR for fitting with a bastonge walnut stock and metal finish .
My Winchester that I fit the metal and sent a cherry blank to Wenigs and then to DGR for fit an finish .

And last , a 5.4 million rack grade with a bad muzzle that I had recrowned and now has a .5 muzzle . It will shoot as well as your friend says his will .

All in all a thousand bucks for a rifle that shoots very well doesn't sound that bad to me , the whole question is do you want to shoot it or collect it . Of those I listed , some will be sought after by collectors for a long time . The H&G and Winchester are drop dead gorgeous rifles a "collector" wouldn't want and neither would the deal hunters . The 5.4 million is an ugly puppy that none of the deal hunters are smart enough to even look at .

Hope that helps some .

Jack

[oldhickory]

Don't let your Krag know you're thinking of this! I let mine know I was going to get an AR, you should have heard them muttering to themselves about me! They didn't seem to mind the Garand since I had it before them, but I'm sure that if it had been a Johnny come lately, they'd have been calling me names.

As well they should! A good Krag should be able to lick any rifle in a slow fire match. I read some where they reduced the time on the rapid fire 10 shot match just to eliminate the Krag and get the regulers to shoot the new-fangled '03 Springfields. Don't know if that's absolutly true or not, but the troops did have a fondness for the Krag.

[zomby woof]

"SELECT GRADE: Same as Service Grade but initially picked out for nicer external appearance. Metal finish is very good to excellent, and the stock will have fewer dents, gouges and bruises. However, the main difference is assured bore condition: throat erosion will not exceed 2 (minor wear). If the gauge reading is greater than 2, a rifle is classified as Service Grade regardless of its external condition. Limit of one per customer per calendar year when available."


I pulled this description off the web. It seems around 2000 they had fewer grades. It seems the select was an enhanced service grade. You need to see what year barrel is on it. If it matches the receiver year, it may be more collectible. If it's a Winchester even better etc....

For $895-995 you can have a rifle from the CMP with a new or almost new barrel.

[HANDYMAN]

If you are setup to order form the CMP just order yourself a service grade HRA or Springfield and ask for a late serial # and I can almost guarantee that you'll get a nice shooter. I've ordered 7 in the last year and everyone has been in excellent condition and a good shooter. Better yet tell them on the order form that it's going to be used for JCG matches and they'll pic one that has really good barrel specs. Great people at the CMP!

[hamour]

In my humble opinion, the best deal going is the CMP Service Grade Special in SA or HRA for 895usd.

It comes with collector grade metal with the exception of stock metal. The stock and it's metal are replacement. All parts of the gun, reciever, bbl, op rod, trigger group etc is as new from the early to mid 50's. They are esentialy brand new GI Garands.

[StanDahl]

I guess I had better decide what I want. I don't know enough about the Garand and parts to feel qualified to make a choice. From what I'm reading here, an old stock is better than a new? Is having a nice stock with no cartouche going to hurt for the future, say in resale?

I find myself usually diving into a purchase, then later getting picky and ending up with 3 guns instead of the one that I realized later that I wanted. I'd better find someone in my club who knows his stuff and pick some brains on the subject.

It doesn't help that I got the results from the CMP match, and... I came in first place with my Krag! Probably not a spectacular score, 442-4x, but good enough to make me want to keep using that rifle. That's out of 14 competitors, all but probably 3 were shooting Garands and jacketed bullets, some handloads, but mostly purchased.

I suppose it wasn't a fair to those other guys with their surplus ammo and me with my Felix-lubed 314299's, all weighing within 0.1 grain of each other, ahead of 16.2 grains of 2400, measured from a Belding & Mull... Hardly any recoil, and the slicker-than-snot Krag action... One guy couldn't believe that my bore wasn't choked full of lead after 55 shots. He was shocked that the bore, aside from a few powder kernels, looked like it had just been cleaned. Why would I want a Garand? (I know, because they're so cool!)

[Jack Stanley]

Well Stan , congrats on the match !! Yes those poor souls didn't stand a chance against your Krag let alone cast lead fitted to the barrel like that !

If you are a picky sort of guy You might want to learn what a Boyds stock is just so you can either avoid it or buy all you see . Boyds does not cut their stocks to the same external dimensions as military stocks . Niether does Wening but the difference is in ; 1. how does it fit the rifle . and 2. how does it feel/fit to you ?

I won't use Boyds stocks because they don't feel the same to me as other stocks . If the CMP is using them as replacements then two things have happened . CMP got them to clean up the quality control issues and Boyds is still the cheapest stock around .

As for aftermarket stocks , Wenigs is NOT the cheapest , I have learned though they are one of the best . Posting photos here elludes me but if you like I can post some at rifle-company.com , just say so and I'll put a couple up for you to see . Several were finished for me by Dean Dillabaugh at DGR guns . I fit the metal and Dean fit the wood , not cheap any way you look at it but if cool is what you're after ....................... you will be pleased .


A collectable "military" piece is really how much money do you want to spend . In racing , horsepower is money , in guns collectability is money . A gas trap Garand would cost you what college for the kid would . However , what the CMP will send you for eight hundred bucks is probably worth just that . I've bought several from them and all were a good value . Some needed to be returned and CMP was good about repair and return .

As for resale , when push comes to shove , a collecter would rather have a cartouche on the stock rather than not . I forget the name of the company that made replacement Garand stocks for the military . If I recall correctly it was a furniture company located near St. Joesph Michigan . Many of their walnut stocks went onto the IHC rifles and some of them went to rebuild programs . They also made a birch stock that went to rebuild programs .The Birch may or may not be cartouched but it is probably my favorite as far as how it fits me . I also have had Springfield and H&R stocks that haven't been through rebuild where they would have been sanded and they also fit me rather well .

A wise man once said , It is naught it is naught sayeth the buyer , but when he is gone he boasteth . It may not be just as I read it but the idea is the same .

Someone local who really knows his stuff can help you a great deal . Buying three rifles now to get the one you want sounds like an expensive way to buy a rifle that might not shoot as well as your Krag

Jack