What Went Wrong??

[runfiverun]

your cramming a large boolit into a smaller throat.
i would try either a different lube like 45/45/10 or another coat of the alox. [quickest. easiest try first]
i'd try a different alloy second.
even 15-1 or 20-1, and lastly an antimonial [higher bhn] alloy.
i'm not a fan of the t/l designs either, they can be problematic.

[Bret4207]

In general terms leading is caused either by gas cutting/erosion (a fit issue), poor lube or mechanical issues resulting from rough surfaces. You've gotten a lot of opinion on what it could be. Were it me I'd get the gun as clean as possible, inspect the forcing cone and barrel for restrictions or rough surfaces, make sure my seating dies weren't swaging my boolit down and back off my load for a start. If this is a PB design finding a balance between the alloys strength, boolit fit and powder charge pressure are key. Good lube is also important and while many people have good luck with LLA, some don't.

What do you think the problem is?

[x101airborne]

Dont throw a rock at me, but did you clean all the copper out of the throat? I have never seen a weapon that did not get at least one jacketed round through it. My sw 66-6 leaded for half the barrel length. it was the copper stripping the lead from the boolit. Cleaned it out, viola!

[runfiverun]

i once seen someone recommend running a couple of hundred full power jaxketed rounds through a revolver before even doing an evaluation on accuracy or trying cast loads.
i have done this on a couple of new revolvers, just to take the rough edges off.

[44man]

1. Your bullets too soft.
2. For a diameter that is too big.
3. The lube is too poor in that small quantity to compensate.
4. Making the powder charge WAY TOO high.
5. For a gun that's not broken in.


From that you aught to be able to plan a course of action to use that wise investment that you made.

Have you ever heard of a brush? Just like brushing after every meal, you need to brush after every cylinder full until you or the gun figure it out.

Listen to Bass and also look up all of my posts.
I never seen a rough forcing cone bad enough to cause a problem. Some Ruger's had a tight spot at the threads but Ruger puts out great guns and they have only gotten better.
Dump the Alox right quick.
Use slower powder.

[inthebeech]

I can add the following answers to some of your questions;

Unfortunately I neglected to mention that some of the money that I've already dropped went into getting the forcinfg cone cut to 11 degrees and polished. Believe me, spoiling your diagnosis hurts me more than it does you but this is a fairly smooth forcing cone.

Alloy is unknown - a combination of many different industrial soources of lead.

Leading is on FC and another quarter inch down past that. No more.

Moderat amount of TL. It never dries completely so I can't be more accurate than this. 90% of the bullet was tucked safely in the case anyway. Remember that bullets were about .0005-.001 larger than throats so I had to seat them off of the transition.

Cases were flaired and then a mild crimp since case neck tension was very light. Remember I did not size the cases down. So the full .434 inch was swaged in the throats and then again down to the groove diameter (most common recommendation from this site).

I guess I should lighten the load some to see what happens as well as load another bunch with a known alloy that is considerably harder. In addition I was admittedly shooting as-cast so the diameters did vary a bit. I am going to make a push through die set to get uniform size and start at a diameter that just allows me to push the loaded round in to the throat with finger pressure. I will have to size the case now since there will be insufficient neck tension but since now I can seat out further, there will be a significant amount of the bullet left out of the case now to remain at the full diameter after sizing. With uniformity of bullet diameter I will try the "light load" as well as the "harder alloy" ideas I guess. For now I'd like to keep as many other variables constant as possible so will hold off changing powders.

So where's the cheapest deals on jacketed bullets? Not knocking the hobby but frankly I'd rather be shooting. At this point I'd pay someone if shipping handguns wasn't so prohibitive, to develop a clean load for me.

Thanks everyone for your input.

[noylj]

If your bullets are over throat diameter, then they are being swaged down in size in an uncontrolled manner. Size bullets so they are a tight slip fit in the throats. Fitting the cylinder throats and have a groove diameter in the barrel less than the diameters of the throats are the keys to revolver accuracy with lead bullets.
I have a Colt Bisley from 1908. The barrel is 0.311 and the throats are 0.308. It does not shoot lead bullets well at all.

[Bass Ackward]

1. I guess I should lighten the load some to see what happens as well as load another bunch with a known alloy that is considerably harder. In addition I was admittedly shooting as-cast so the diameters did vary a bit. I am going to make a push through die set to get uniform size and start at a diameter that just allows me to push the loaded round in to the throat with finger pressure. I will have to size the case now since there will be insufficient neck tension but since now I can seat out further, there will be a significant amount of the bullet left out of the case now to remain at the full diameter after sizing. With uniformity of bullet diameter I will try the "light load" as well as the "harder alloy" ideas I guess. For now I'd like to keep as many other variables constant as possible so will hold off changing powders.

2. At this point I'd pay someone if shipping handguns wasn't so prohibitive, to develop a clean load for me.

Reading 1, your lucks about to change. Well .... change enough that you'll cut down on leading. You might still want #2. But asking for that is like asking someone to break in a new girl friend for you.

Let's revisit:

1. Your bullets too soft. There is nothing wrong with soft lead, just you have to know how to use it and determine it's limits. Soft lead tasks lube more.

2. For a diameter that is too big. I size all over the place, but you have to understand that when you size big that you task your lead / lube combo more. (and the gun)

3. The lube is too poor in that small quantity to compensate. The more you task a bullet the better and more lube you need. That's why some guys scramble for the "magic" lube so that they have the widest window to operate in.

4. Making the powder charge WAY TOO high. This is the single fastest adjustment you can make. It ain't the powders fault, it's your ability to create an environment your slug can live with. But just because you find that point, doesn't mean accuracy is going to be there when you do. See #1, #3 above.

5. For a gun that's not broken in. I don't even begin serious load development anymore for the first 2000 rounds. Doesn't mean every guns needs it, or that yours is one that does, Just doesn't make since doing all that work until the gun stabilizes mechanically and dimensionally.

Now you know every, single, thing there is .... about shooting lead. That is everything but the age old Reloader's Creed. START LOW AND COME UP!!!

Lead catches two types of people. The short cutters and the lazy. You can be the most ignorant SOB on the planet, but if you start low enough, and come up in small increments, you can make ANYTHING work.

You didn't do that. Get'er done.

[Bret4207]

Pretty much agree with Bass. Were I you I'd locate some known decent alloy. You don't actually need "harder" alloy, you need a more or less identified alloy that is tough enough for the job. Plain old wheel weights are sort of standard.

I'd back off the charge and start low and slow till you get the hang of things. On;y change one item at a time, WRITE IT DOWN, and observe your results.

You sound like you have the basics in your head. It's just a matter of learning to recognize the issues and dealing with them that's next.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I bought a CA Bulldog in .44 Special. I found a load in a manuel that called for a charge of 6.5 gr of Unique under a 250 gr LSWC boolit.

It about to tore my hand offa my arm. Much too hot for this pistol. I pulled those babies and went down to 4.3 gr of Unique with a 236 gr LHPSWC mold by Mihec and this was the ticket.

Good lube in the grooves, right charge of powder and alloy of plain ww's that were water quenched.

I just bought a Ruger Bisley .44 Special with the 5.5" bbl and I will be working on a load for that pretty soon.

I agree with what Bret4207 sez in spades. Lower your charge down to 4.5 or 5 gr of Unique and see if that helps you out. Make sure that your boolits are not being sized down during the reloading process by pulling a few boolts from completed rounds and measuring them. Try using plain vanilla ww's for an alloy.

Again try only one thing at a time and write down what you did before you go out and shoot off that round. I am much too old and have suffered too much dain bramage to rely on my memory for anything other than where I live and my dogs name.

If you find the right combination let me know so I will not have to go through your trials with my new Ruger.