Reality Check: Star vs Lyman 4500?

[Daryl]

Hi,

I'm using they Lyman 4500 for lube sizing. If all goes well, it seems I can do about 400 9mm/38's in an hour or so. First question: is this about average for everyone?

My volume is starting to go up and I'd like to be able to do a few thousand in a sitting. Honestly, one hour at the Lyman has my back aching!

I looked at Magma's web site and found the Star plus a bullet feeder and air feed set up for 3 calibers would end up about $765.

So, my question is this: Is it worth it? What production level have you experienced with the Star vs. the Lyman?

I look at the cost of buying lead makes my material cost less than a penny a bullet. Market prices are 6 cents or more. So, I figure I'm "making" a nickel a piece in labor for the whole casting, sizing, lubing operation. I can cast/size/lube about 300 an hour with my current set up- so that's about $15 per hour (of course, with taxes & the gummit's share - I'd have to be making $25 an hour or so to pay out $15 in cash to buy them).

So, how much labor would the Star save? I can figure out the "payback" in bullets for my labor once I can get an idea of the production rate.

Thanks

[357shooter]

Good poll. Right now I pan lube and shoot unsized. I'm thinking about getting a Lyman/RCBS early next year or maybe waiting for a Star. That's most days.

Other days, pan lubing is working so well and sizing with Lee sizers (if needed or for gas checks) that I'm not sure a lubri-sizer would work better.

The elapsed time to pan lube 250 bullets is an hour or so, but most of the time I'm doing something else as things are in the oven or in the fridge. That handles a week of shooting, just do it one evening each week.

Today is a "stick w/pan lubing" day cause it's easy and cheap and most importantly, is working extremely well. I love my Darr lube, it probably wouldn't work in a lubrisize.

[dragonrider]

All of my sizing is done on a Star.

[cheese1566]

Use a Star for the majority of mine and a RCBS LAM for the odd pistols and rifle.

If nothing else, get the Star and upgrade from there. When I bought mine, I was fortuneate to get a deal on an air feed and had the components to build a roller handle and PID controlled heater.

The last I would get would be a bullet feeder. They add a little more complexity and adjustment. I found I could go just as fast by feeding by hand.

You can do those 400 bullets in a fraction of the time and grin everytime you are done!

Attachment 26545

[Daryl]

Great input, Cheese. Thanks. I'm checking on availability now. I will hold off on the feeder. I like the fraction of the time idea! I will also keep the Lyman for those low-volume ones like the rifle, etc. Can you also install the gas checks as you size on the Star? I have stuck with the stock size Lyman dies of 356 - 358 - 452. Any input on .0005 increments?

[ReloaderFred]

I own and use a Lyman 450, an RCBS, two SAECO machines and four Star sizers. By far, the majority of my sizing and lubing is done on the Star machines, especially for pistol bullets. I did about 3,000 .38 bullets on one of my Star machines the day before yesterday in about two hours, feeding them by hand.

I don't have an air feed for any of my Star machines, but I do have a Midway heater, with another on the way. I use different lubes in the different machines, depending on what the bullets are intended for.

I've had the Lyman sizer since about 1970 and it's my least favorite machine to use. The Star machines are my favorite, with the SAECO being next and the RCBS holding the third spot. I also have an old Lyman 45 machine, but I don't use it.

My suggestion would be to get a basic Star/Magma machine and use it. If you use hard lubes, which I tend to prefer for my pistol caliber use, since bulk storage is easier in cardboard boxes, then you'll need a heater of some sort. A bullet feeder would be nice, but not necessary and I've found that I don't need the air feed, since I would have to move it back and forth between my machines and that just doesn't seem like it's worth the bother.

I highly recommend Lathesmith on this forum for dies for the Star machines. He's less expensive and his quality is first rate. Besides, he seems like a really nice guy.

I feed my sizer/lubricators with a Magma Master Caster and about two dozen bullet molds for it. I'll spend a day casting and another half day sizing and lubing. The nice thing about using these machines is they don't wear you out like the manual methods do. I've got about 50 manual molds, but I find I have to force myself to crank up the Lyman or RCBS pots to cast manually anymore. Getting old makes you appreciate some of the easier ways of doing things....

Hope this helps.

Fred

[angus6]

Daryl there is no comparison when it comes to speed, go with the Magma. if your a handy type guy you can build your own heater for about 1/4 of what they want. You can also build a collator if you want to feed bullets, takes a bit of tinkering and different plates for different bullets

I bought the complete package and can lube bullets as fast as I can pull the handle.

UPS is dropping this off tomorrow but it's going to be feed by the Bullet Master
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VggR...eature=related

I would think if your not using the bullet feeder you could have Chris make some custom top punches and put g/c on

[thegreatdane]

Other - pan.

[Daryl]

Well, I'm convinced and just ordered one. I guess they are not always in stock and ready to ship but they are now. Hope to have it in a few days and get started.

[cheese1566]

Don't forget lube (this takes solid, but hollow will work too) and dies!
Lathesmith makes excellent dies, extra punches, locknuts with setscrews, and roller handles.

[357shooter]

If anyone decides to sell their Lyman or RCBS to buy a Star please PM me. I'd be interested.

[Daryl]

Don't forget lube (this takes solid, but hollow will work too) and dies!
Lathesmith makes excellent dies, extra punches, locknuts with setscrews, and roller handles.

I'll use the hollow lubes I have to get started then order them solid. I've been using LBT blue and like it -

[Daryl]

Any hints or secrets on setting up the Star? I printed the owners manual from the web site but it is pretty general and looks like it is mostly a learn-as-you-go operation.

[curiousgeorge]

I think I posted on this thread yesterday, but here goes again anyway.

Try a plain Star first. Spend extra money on sizing dies and bullet lube. The increase in production over the Lyman 4500 is double or more especially if you size nose first.

I have 3 Stars that stay set up in .358, .430, & .452. I have 2 Lyman 4500's, one with a .457 die and the other with a .309 die that are never changed. And last but not least is the old Lyman 450 that I use for everything else odd that I don't shoot as much as the others (.313, .325, .355, .359, .410, .454, etc.). Every time I use a Lyman, even though they work fine and do a good job, I quickly remember why I bought the Stars.

The older I get, the more I try to save time anyway I can.

Steve

[curiousgeorge]

Cheese, you have a good looking Star set up. You mentioned something that sometimes gets overlooked.

One more thing that would be well worth the investment is a good heater. Mine is an old Lyman that I mounted on some raised wood blocks and then used t-nuts to fasten the blocks to the bench. When using the Stars it stays back on the bench, when using the Lymans, remove the four bolts from the top and slide to the front of the bench and c-clamp.

Steve

[dragonrider]

Hollow sticks of lube will work yes, but the air bubble created will cause some minor problems like lube grooves not filling or lube pushing out of the die when you don't want it to. I find it best to melt those and pour it into the sizer.

[Roundnoser]

I have a couple Stars (.452" and .356") and a Lyman 4500. I love the Stars. My Lyman is for bullets I don't cast in volume (41 mag, 44 Mag, 38/357). I purchased the Magma heater bases. They are expensive at $100.00+ each, but they have a built-in, adjustable thermostat which is really nice. The Lyman 4500 has a heating rod that inserts into the base. There is no thermostat, so It must be plugged in and out of an electrical socket whenever you want to heat it up or cool it down...IMO, a real pain in the &*% after awhile.

When you get your Star, don't get frustrated if you have a rough time getting to work just right. There is a learing curve. Check out some of the other threads on that subject. Once you have it running, you'll really like it! LEt us know how you make out.

[RobS]

If I wasn't such a tight ars I would have gotten a star a long time ago. I guess my time just isn't worth as much as others; I'll sit a bit longer and work a bullet down and then up over and over through the RCBS Luba-a-matic. With that though, if I happened to come accross one at the right price wel...........................l then that would be a different story.

[Daryl]

If I wasn't such a tight ars I would have gotten a star a long time ago. I guess my time just isn't worth as much as others; I'll sit a bit longer and work a bullet down and then up over and over through the RCBS Luba-a-matic. With that though, if I happened to come accross one at the right price wel...........................l then that would be a different story.

I can be pretty tight, too. That's why I tried to put the numbers to it. My best, with all going right, is 250-300 an hour on the Lyman. I'm hearing that I should double or triple that with the Star. Say I can produce 400 more per hour with less hassle.

I look at many tool purchases as "how will my labor pay for this tool if I do it myself?" So, if the cast bullets are 6 to 8 cents each purchased, and materials are about a penny (if purchasing lead), then those 400 extra per hour are "paying" me, say a nickel or more in labor. So, it's like $20 an hour for those extra 400. In 10 to 15 hours I'll have the difference for the Star "earned off".

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

fellow tightwad here.
another factor in many tool purchases that I forget when I am deciding to buy, but always remember when someone else is deciding buy...is resale value.
Jon