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Thread: Airgun Hunting with Cast Bullets

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Airgun Hunting with Cast Bullets

    I posted a good bit of bigbore air rifle information under the thread titled "THANK YOU Dale53" in the Cast Boolits section, and thought it would be a good idea to make a post here to bring more awareness to these unique arms. From the looks of things, most of the people posting here are completely unaware that these rifles exist.

    First off, I hunt with my .456 caliber air rifle exclusively. I do a bit of target practice, but I always consider target practice to be load development, and/or preparation for my next hunt. I usually practice with the boolit I intend on hunting with.

    These rifles are a boolit casters dream, seeing as there is no need to purchase powder, primers, shells or reloading equipment. All you need is a HillPump (I'll explain), your beloved BOOLITS cast from about BHN10 or softer alloy, and the air surrounding you to propel it.

    You can load your favorite boolit into the rifle the second it is cool, step out onto the back 40, and let er' rip. No need to spend time, or money on reloading supplies/equipment.

    My own rifle shoots roundball@870fps, and 240grainers@700fps. There are other .45 air rifles out there that are A LOT more powerful than my own. My next air rifle will throw a .45 caliber 260grainer at around 900fps (sound familiar?hehe), and 500grainers at about 671fps.

    The most powerful air rifle I have shot personally, threw a 500grain slug at 735fps. There are a select few air rifles that are a good bit more powerful than that!

    The first large animal I killed with my bigbore air rifle was an exotic ram. The soul purpose of shooting this ram was to see with my own eyes what this rifle was capable of, and gauge what type of game I could take with it from the results (shades of Strasbourg). I used a 255grain PRS250 slug with a .32 meplat, at approx. 650fps-or-so fps (never chronied this slug). Distance was only about 15 yards.

    That is the exit wound shown on the shoulder. After gutting the ram, it was brought to a professional game processor. He said the ram looked as though it had been shot with a 30-06, and was literally flabbergasted over the fact that it was shot with an air rifle.




    After gaining confidence in my rifle's abilities, I gathered three other bigbore airgun hunters to join me to hunt the feral/wild boar native to Oklahoma. We all used .45caliber air rifles, mine being the least powerful of the bunch. One guy brought a .45 air rifle that (other than the stock and airtube) he had built himself.

    We each dropped our hogs where they stood, with one well-placed shot to the brain. This father, and his son were fortunate enough to get their hogs on the same night shooting 205 grain SWC's that appeared to be the Lyman 452460 design. Sows weighing 100, and 143lbs respectively.



    My buddy Jim shot his 100lb boar behind the ear, and out the front of the head with a DD-PRS 390 (nominal weight 390grains) going about 770fps, again cast in soft lead by Springfield Slim.





    I shot my 80-or-so pound boar with a 226grain Lyman 45266 kindly provided by LeftoverDJ. It was likely going around 700+fps (haven't chronied that design).





    The rifle can be charged with 2500-3200psi of air in one of two ways: the easy way is a scuba tank with a specialized yoke and air fittings. The not-as-easy way (still not to tough) is with a HillPump. I get 4-6 full power shots out of my rifle with one charge of air. 4-5 shots of 240grainers all shoot between 693, and 699fps out of my rifle. I don't care who you are, that is a very low deviance in FPS.
    It usually cost a few bucks to fill your scuba tank at the scuba shop, but once you buy a HillPump you have a lifetime of free propellant (sounds nice, doesn't it?).




    These rifles are extremely accurate. Here are two groups I shot after a days hunt, using the EPP/UG design cast in about BHN9 alloy (again, Springfield Slim). They are the only groups I shot that day, so these results are typical. 35, and 50 yards off of the steady stix, while sitting on the ground in the field. .6, and .9 inch center to center.




  2. #2
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    Here is a group I shot off the monopod while kneeling on both knees at 50 yards using the hollowpoint #454424's cast in near pure lead, sent to me by Grizzly Bear. The printer was accidentally set to print at %97 size, so the small squares on the target are %97 of .5 inch. The monopod got a little wobbly for shot #2 hehe.

    It is accuracy like this, that prompted me to talk Dale53 out of his #454424 mold. I was thinking of having a cavity modified to drop hollowpoints, but I think I will leave it as is, and get a single cavity #454424 mold to modify instead.



    My best measured 50 yard group to date off of the steady stix is .45 inch center to center using the .45Slim design from Springfield Slim (same place I got the EPP/UG's, and the PRS 250's used to kill the ram).

    I pay $28+shipping for 250 hunting boolits, so I can afford to do target practice with the same boolit I hunt with. When I begin casting my own, hunting/shooting will be dirt cheap.

    In conclusion, this is my greatest hunting accomplishment to date. Called-in to 15 yards (after 10 seconds of blowing the Primos Cat-Nip handcall), and shot with a single roundball (didn't have time to zero with anything else before the hunt).


    Let me know what you all think!






  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for sharing. I thought this was a very interesting read.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thats awesome!
    American Rifleman had an article last year about the airgun that Lewis and Clark carried with them on their journey. I remember it was a large caliber--REPEATER--(like 6 rounds) they used for hunting and also used for demonstrations for the natives. Supposedly that rifle was instrumental in "incentivising" the Indians to co-operate with the Corps of Discovery.
    I believe the air tank was a goats bladder or something like that.

    Are these modern rifles available as repeaters?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanOH View Post
    Are these modern rifles available as repeaters?

    With air rifles, a "bigbore" is considered to be .308 and up. The only repeater bigbore air rifle out there that I am aware of is the Career 9mm Ultra. A lever action, six shot repeater.

    They say in the listing below that the only "pellets" that work are the ones sold by EJ, but there are 100grain flatnose slugs that have proven to work just fine.


    http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=307

  6. #6
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    How heavy are these rifles?

    Very interesting.
    Doug
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dk17hmr View Post
    How heavy are these rifles?

    Very interesting.

    Mine is advertised at 7.5lbs without a scope.

    Unfortunately, they have stopped importing the SamYang rifles into the country. My best guess as to why, is that it is due to a safety issue with the sear that needs addressed, some of them more than others.

    Hopefully they will resolve the issue, and continue importing them. Until then, there are still a few guys here in the states that build custom bigbore air rifles. They all have long waiting lists, though.
    Last edited by Butcher45; 05-27-2009 at 01:21 AM.

  8. #8
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    Butcher45,

    Nice thread. Have you tried swaged slugs in the rifle or do you see an advantage to having the driving band-groove configuration? Could you shoot a hollow or cup based swaged LSWC type slug?

    I have a set of corbin LSWC dies in 45. send me a pm if you would like me to swage and measure diameter. I think they are .452, but would need to check for sure. I think I have a couple of nose punches, and flat and cup base punches.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by manleyjt View Post
    Butcher45,

    Nice thread. Have you tried swaged slugs in the rifle or do you see an advantage to having the driving band-groove configuration? Could you shoot a hollow or cup based swaged LSWC type slug?

    I have a set of corbin LSWC dies in 45. send me a pm if you would like me to swage and measure diameter. I think they are .452, but would need to check for sure. I think I have a couple of nose punches, and flat and cup base punches.
    The swaged slugs that I can recall trying, are the Hornady 250grain .454's, the BBC 180 grain BP Pistol Boolits, and the T/C MaxiBalls (I think they are swaged?). All of them shoot very well, though I haven't shot many of the Hornady 250grainers yet. The Maxi-Balls are about .455 on the top ring.

    I am leaning towards .4555-.456 as being the ideal over-all boolit diameter for this barrel (anyone know where to find a .456 sizer?). I know that .457 roundball shoots better than the .454 RB in most of the 909 barrels I have heard of.

    With these bigbore air rifles, the less contact area the slug has with the barrel, the better; so long as there is a good air seal, and enough band area to grab the rifling without stripping when using soft lead. That's one reason I am a big fan of the BigLube designs, particularly the .45Slims, and EPP/UG's.

    I think that the swaged slugs benefit from the process used to rough-up the sides to help with lube retention (though I do not use boolit lube), thus reducing contact area while still maintaining a good air seal. I can't recall what that process is called at the moment, it will probably come to me the moment I push "submit reply" hehe.

    As for hollow/cup based slugs, I would like to test those sometime. The BBC's shot well out of my rifle. I don't know if 2500-3200psi will expand the cup or not. I may have access to a bunch of sheep wool to shoot slugs into with the hope that they remain un-damaged so I can evaluate them. That is, if the rancher doesn't burn it all before I get out there again.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanOH View Post
    Thats awesome!
    American Rifleman had an article last year about the airgun that Lewis and Clark carried with them on their journey. I remember it was a large caliber--REPEATER--(like 6 rounds) they used for hunting and also used for demonstrations for the natives. Supposedly that rifle was instrumental in "incentivising" the Indians to co-operate with the Corps of Discovery.
    I believe the air tank was a goats bladder or something like that.

    Are these modern rifles available as repeaters?
    It held, like, TWENTY TWO balls...

    Girandoni military model repeating air rifle invented by Bartholomäus Girandoni, Vienna, Model of 1780. Full length view, right hand side. Breech loading, rapid fire repeater, issued with two extra air reservoirs and three extra 20 shot speed loading tubes. At first, a long hand pump was provided to every soldier, later to every other soldier. The magazine has always been described as holding 20 balls, but this specimen has a capacity, with one ball in the firing position, of 22 balls. ...

    The Girandoni military air rifle is a butt reservoir air rifle with a rifled bore diameter of 0.452” (11.48 mm) , groove diameter 0.462" (11.73 mm) (personal communication, Ernst Cowan, 2005; bore diameter of about 0.450" determined by author prior to insuring the Beeman Girandoni on 2 December 1978 ). The proper pure lead ball was 0.464" (11.79 mm) caliber of 154 grains (10.01 gms) or 45 balls per pound. This was the popular "11 3/4 mm" caliber of that period. Rifling is twelve grooves with one turn in about two-thirds of a meter (26.25"). As noted in the Rodney account, the reservoir indeed has an unusual “bag” shape. This conical iron air reservoir serves to hold a supply of highly compressed air and to act as the rifle’s buttstock. An external tubular magazine, along the right side of the barrel generally was described as holding 20 lead balls which are gravity fed (without a magazine spring or follower) to a transverse loading bar at the breech end of the barrel. However, with a ball in the firing socket of the loading bar, our specimen has a total ball capacity of 22 balls. The correct magazine capacity evidently is 21 balls. A flat spring running the length of the outside of the magazine holds the loading bar to the left. When the gun is held muzzle up and the left end of the loading bar is pushed by the shooter, the bar moves to the right, and a cavity within the bar receives a ball by gravity from the magazine. The ball is moved into firing position behind the barrel as the magazine spring is allowed to push the loading bar back to the left. ...



    FWIW, AR largely plagerized/cited without attribution and generally did a hatchet job to Mr. Beeman's EXTENSIVE research on the Girandoni Air Rifle.

    http://www.beemans.net/lewis-assault-rifle.htm
    http://www.beemans.net/

    Lots of "how to" for metal wizards here: http://www.beemans.net/images/Austrian%20airguns.htm
    Last edited by Old Ironsights; 05-27-2009 at 08:15 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Butcher45, have you tried any 450229s ?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SWIAFB View Post
    Butcher45, have you tried any 450229s ?

    No, I haven't. They do look very interesting. What diameter do they drop at? Judging from the weight/shape, I presume it has a hollow base?

  13. #13
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    Mine are dropping at .458, 165grs stick on w/w's with a bit of reclaimed 60/40 added. Yes, it is a hollw base. Works great in a Ruger Old Army.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SWIAFB View Post
    Mine are dropping at .458, 165grs stick on w/w's with a bit of reclaimed 60/40 added. Yes, it is a hollw base. Works great in a Ruger Old Army.
    Looks to have a pretty decent meplat for such a light round. I hear hollow base slugs are pretty tough to cast.

  15. #15
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    Lyman #45266

    Butcher45:

    I did check that thread and Floodgate got my Lyman #45266 mold.

    gizmo

  16. #16
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    Airgun hunting is very interesting stuff. I shoot PCP types almost daily. Using Mountain Molds web based design software, I designed 275gr pellet with an 85% meplat for a friend that uses a Dragonslayer 50. The bore is .493" actually. The mould was speced to drop them at.494" and I am waiting by the mailbox for the .493" push through die from Buckshot to test the little monster.

    SS
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharpsShooter View Post
    Airgun hunting is very interesting stuff. I shoot PCP types almost daily. Using Mountain Molds web based design software, I designed 275gr pellet with an 85% meplat for a friend that uses a Dragonslayer 50. The bore is .493" actually. The mould was speced to drop them at.494" and I am waiting by the mailbox for the .493" push through die from Buckshot to test the little monster.

    SS

    Is your friend's DS modified for additional power over stock? That is a very heavy slug for a stock DS gun to expect much velocity from it.

    I figured I would see Buckshot involved with these bigbore airguns eventually, but geez that was faster than I thought!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butcher45 View Post
    Is your friend's DS modified for additional power over stock? That is a very heavy slug for a stock DS gun to expect much velocity from it.

    I figured I would see Buckshot involved with these bigbore airguns eventually, but geez that was faster than I thought!
    Velocity is expected to remain in the realm of 600fps. I purposely designed it to have two narrow drive bands (.078) to keep the friction coeficient low, but yet retain enough bearing surface to allow the rifling to impart spin.

    Given a velocity of 600fps, a 275gr pellet will produce 219 ft-lbs of energy.

    Pyramid Air offers 200 and 225gr pellets


    See also.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=51775


    SS
    NRA Life Member Since 1981



    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

    II Corinthians 4:8-9. We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted but not forsaken, struck down, but not destroyed."

    Psalms 25:2 O my God, I trust in thee: let me not be ashamed, let not mine enemies triumph over me.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharpsShooter View Post
    Velocity is expected to remain in the realm of 600fps. I purposely designed it to have two narrow drive bands (.078) to keep the friction coeficient low, but yet retain enough bearing surface to allow the rifling to impart spin.

    Given a velocity of 600fps, a 275gr pellet will produce 219 ft-lbs of energy.

    Pyramid Air offers 200 and 225gr pellets


    See also.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=51775


    SS

    Yea that should do the trick. I used a 255grainer@about 650fps on a corsican ram, and it went thru him like a hot knife thru butter.

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance Four Fingers of Death's Avatar
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    Wow! how noisy/quiet are these rifles? I wouldn't mind building one myself. I have a smick No4 Bbl downstairs, a 180/200Gn boolit travelling at 1000fps would be pretty good up to about 30-40 yards I reckon. I have an old 1866 Uberti, I could pull the Bbl fit a 45 Cal Bbl and chamber it for 45 Cowboy and use the thin 1866 Bbl for the airgun, nice soft pure lead boolits at 900 off fps, that's awesome.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check