Pedersoli cancels sponsorship

[wills]

I'm against big buck contests. They used to be a fairly common thing here. Then, someone realized that slobs would shoot a buck, and if he saw something bigger, he would shoot that one, and dump the smaller one in the ditch.

It can bring a lot of business into rural areas, not that it is good, but economic reality.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...st&btnG=Search

[jh45gun]

I seem to remember a couple of years ago, Toby was a 100% cheerleader for Savage smokless muzzleloaders. IIRC, after Savage fired him, he claimed his rifle blew up and started to ring the alarm. Makes one wonder, huh? -JDL

Was always against this gun still am. If your going to use copper bullets and a primer ignition and smokeless powder then you pretty much have a centerfire with out the case. At least with the other muzzle loaders the powder still keeps it some what primitive due to how it acts and performs.

[Buckshot]

..............Back 30 - 40 years ago when a few states began to listen to the hunters wanting a primitive season, ie: muzzle loaders using BP I'm pretty sure we can all see what they pictured in their minds, right? The F&G folks all envisioned a bunch of Fess Parkers out in their buckskins skulking through the woods with thier Kentucky's (er. Pennsylvania type rifles). After all that IS the idea most folks have in their heads about muzzle loaders.

So as the Primitive/muzzle loader season idea spread across the country it begat a whole industry catering to just that. Before it had been Civil or Revolutionary war re-enactors or the early rondyvooers . It became bigger and it seemed every retailer of any size, discount houses and even tire stores were carrying Hawken rifle kits. I'll bet there's a half a million unfinished one stuck back someplace in the garage or a closet.

But then like any other sport you get newer, better, faster, easier, more powerfull tools as people seek an 'edge'. They see how close they can skirt the rules until someone hollers, FOUL!

I personally don't care for the modern inlines. Just like I don't care for plastic stocks and I only have 1 stainless gun and that's a Vaquero I bought because it was all steel and looked like nickle plating. There are colors I don't like, cars I don't care for, etc, etc, ad nauseum. I also remember our old rangemaster ******** about all the weekend shooters coming out with thier SKS's.

However I'll also say that those cheap SKS's, and the inline muzzle loaders probably got a lot of people out shooting who otherwise might not have. And to me, the more shooters there are, the better off we ALL are, as they're interests may have broadened. So I can appreciate the fact that the cheap inlines (and not so cheap ones) got a lot of people out who maybe did not care for the more traditional rifles. It sure sparked an industry, didn't it?

However it all comes back to the beginning. Who were the folks agitating for MLer only seasons and what did they carry into the woods when they got those seasons? To be honest there may have been more then a few early primitive hunters who latched on to the idea of the inlines and now use them exclusively. But I'll also bet that the majority of that number were people who really didn't care about the truth of the reason for the primitive season. It was just another way to extend hunting.

The real reason for a muzzle loading season was so the modern day hunter could have a season set aside so they really could get out there in their buckskins or breeches and linsey woolsey shirts with a rifle or smoothbore that took black powder and a patched round ball, and that was made of wood and steel. And the rifle would have been recognizeable to their great, great, great grandfathers.

So as I said, I personally have no issue with the MODERN inline as the concept is not new. What, or rather who I have a problem with are those who push, and push and push beyond the original intent for the whole thing to begin with.

Rant off and flame suit on

................Buckshot

[Old Ironsights]

Got no problems with the guns. Got big problems with Toby and his threats about demanding a 100yd/1000ftlb regulation.

First of all, beyond its general absurdity, it would be utterly unenforcable.

Secondly, when Toby was writing for one rag or another in the 80s, he was all about round balls. Turns out he's all about whoever is sponsoring him.

AFAIC any non-nitro powder muzzlestuffer should be OK in a seperate season - but any optic over 2x should not be. IMO ifyou want to use a long-flat shooting whatever that needs magnified optics to shoot, then that should be done in Gun season.

I always thought muzzstuffing was all about getting up close and personal, like Bows, only with boom.

What's the point of sneaking up on somthing when Joe Sniper pops it from 250+?

[waksupi]

In the back of my mind, I seem to recall a story about him many years ago. I believe he shot an elk in Wyoming, and then proceeded to have his picture taken with several different ML rifles, from different manufacturers. He then tried to sel lthe story, to each of the companies. Don't recall if he was successful. I do recall, that once the pictures were taken, he didn't want the elk. This story came from a pretty reliable ML writer.

[Mike Nesbitt]

I've heard some of those stories but I'll save them for around the campfire. Shoot sharp, Mike

[jh45gun]

I would be perfectly happy if we could have a 2 x scope instead of our regs now that we have to have 1x. Those 1x scopes get pretty pricey for what you get. I would rather use a cheap red dot then which I do. Or a Peep sight which I do too. Yea I know that the open sights are more traditional, But my eyes just do not work as well as they used to Like most of us when we get a bit older. I wish some one would make a cheaper "period" scope that the average guy could afford too instead of paying 500 + for most of them.

[Heyboy]

In PA we have an early season for modern (cap locks or in lines) where only doe can be taken and we have a flintlock season. Starts the day after Christmas.

[smithnframe]

Who is Toby Bridges?

[Hickory]

Who is Toby Bridges?

Someone not important enough to warrant any serious concern.

[Maven]

https://www.goodreads.com/author/lis...8.Toby_Bridges

[charlie b]

Who is Toby Bridges?

That was going to be my question. Never heard of him.

Someone not important enough to warrant any serious concern.

And that was my second thought

https://www.goodreads.com/author/lis...8.Toby_Bridges

Ok, so that confirms it. Someone out to beat their own drum.

As far as hunting seasons, I used to hunt out here during ML season just to stay away from all the crazies during the regular gun seasons. Then the inlines came in and all the idiots bought one. Now ML season is just as crowded and filled with crazies as the gun seasons. Bow season did the same with the new compounds, sights and mechanical releases. They might as well just make a bunch of different gun seasons these days. If they want to limit the number of animals harvested then use the draw system.

All this is one of the major reasons I stopped hunting.

[dondiego]

That was going to be my question. Never heard of him.



And that was my second thought



Ok, so that confirms it. Someone out to beat their own drum.

As far as hunting seasons, I used to hunt out here during ML season just to stay away from all the crazies during the regular gun seasons. Then the inlines came in and all the idiots bought one. Now ML season is just as crowded and filled with crazies as the gun seasons. Bow season did the same with the new compounds, sights and mechanical releases. They might as well just make a bunch of different gun seasons these days. If they want to limit the number of animals harvested then use the draw system.

All this is one of the major reasons I stopped hunting.

The whole point is to INCREASE the number of animals harvested. At least in this state. The auto insurance companies in Michigan are demanding it. There were over 50,000 deer car accidents reported in 2017. Many are never reported.

[Fly]

At 74 years of age I have many years of hunting under my belt. I got into Muzzle loaders in the 1970s when there was no inlines.
Back then we hunted, no deer feeders, cameras & so on. It was as our fathers & before did. Hunting today I don't consider real hunting
in the primitive hunting season. Funny I hunted with my flintlock even in regular gun season. That's just me. I,m waiting for the new fangled
so called hunter to be calling for night vision. Have a family that lives down the road that shoots deer off there back porch under there deer feeder
in the back yard. I could do the same but refuse to. To each there on, as what you want to call it, I call it harvesting. Just as you would cattle. JMOHOP.

Fly

[Walks]

Gave My Dad one of his early books shortly before He passed, He didn't have anything to say, that was worthwhile. So I never bought another of his books.
Not surprised to hear the controversy. Didn't care for his mag articles either.

Just a guy wanting to make a buck anyway he can. No pun intended.

[charlie b]

The whole point is to INCREASE the number of animals harvested. At least in this state. The auto insurance companies in Michigan are demanding it. There were over 50,000 deer car accidents reported in 2017. Many are never reported.

Those states should not bother with bow or ML hunts at all. Just open up more gun seasons. I assume they already allow more that one deer harvested per hunter as well. If not then they are just being stupid.

FWIW, my father-in-law grew up in South Haven. He remembers as a kid the bathroom mirror being shot out by a hunter who missed the cow (milk cow) he was shooting at (cause he thought it was a deer)

[Fly]

Charlie I think he knew it was a cow. A rancher by me has had more than one of his heard shot. He caught to young men cutting the hine quarter off
it. He beat one of them to a inch of his life, the other took off.

Fly

[Texas by God]

Texas should have a muzzleloading deer season. The last three weeks of January sounds good. Another hunters use of a scoped inline plastic sabot launcher doesn't bother me but I would go traditional with PRB and irons. As it is now, sometimes I keep my .54 Plains pistol with me during gun season for those close range encounters. I killed a nice buck at 44 feet a few years back with it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[brewer12345]

I started with muzzleloaders because there is less competition for tags in the draw. Now that I have had lots of fun playing with them and harvested a doe with round ball in a cap lock, I could see getting a flinter and going ever more old school for deer. It's too much fun.

My state allows in lines, but no sabots or scopes. The latter will eventually be an issue for me, but until then I think it means that the in line hunters basically have no real advantage over side lock hunters.

[megasupermagnum]

I started with muzzleloaders because there is less competition for tags in the draw. Now that I have had lots of fun playing with them and harvested a doe with round ball in a cap lock, I could see getting a flinter and going ever more old school for deer. It's too much fun.

My state allows in lines, but no sabots or scopes. The latter will eventually be an issue for me, but until then I think it means that the in line hunters basically have no real advantage over side lock hunters.

I have no idea who Toby Bridges is, and that sounds like a good thing.

As for the advantage. You could always put a scope on your side lock. I've heard the argument so many times, but from my experience there is no huge advantage to an inline design verses a side lock percussion. The only "advantage" would be the use of pelletized powder, which is inferior to loose powder anyway. With a 209 primer, and only some breech plug designs, you can use Blackhorn 209 powder which is very close to a true smokeless powder.

As for accuracy, I see guys with sidelocks who regularly outshoot the average inline shooter. The accuracy is in the barrel, not the ignition (to a certain extent). There's nothing stopping you from putting a fast twist barrel on a sidelock and using sabots too. There's nothing stopping you from using conicals and outshooting them!

Flintlocks are another animal that I'm only beginning to experiment with.

There is no clear distinction between ignition types, but the match lock ruled for about 200 years. Then things got fuzzy until the flintlock came into it's main form. Depending on if you consider any lock that used a flint, a flintlock, the flintlock was used for 300-400 years! Then about 1830 the percussion cap came, and in a measly 50ish years was taken over by primers. Rimfire, then centerfire. I was just reading about the 44 Russian, the first cartridge in America to use a centerfire primer, in a brass case, with a bullet inside the case (not heeled). This was in 1870, so the centerfire primer has now been the primary ignition for firearms for just about 150 years. While we know the sidelock percussion cap was always more popular, it was an easier step after building flintlock rifles for so long. Still, inline ignition muzzleloaders existed as long as percussion caps have. Also, where does the underhammer fall in all this? Pun intended.

What makes the percussion cap so special? What about inline designs that use percussion caps like my TC scout pistol, or Knight TK2000 (12 gauge)?

This is nothing against you brewer, I just think its odd that percussion caps existed alongside sidelock, inline, and under hammer designs. Who knows what else, there were all kinds of funky designs in the 1800's. Yet only the popular sidelock is considered traditional, even with a laughably short lifespan.