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Thread: Star Lube Sizer Air Feed for Lube Completed & Successful

  1. #41
    Boolit Buddy
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    Got all my parts, but all I could find for piston seals were neoprene rubber grommets that just happen to fit perfectly into the tube. What's everyone else using for this? It should work, but I won't know until I try it, I suppose...
    Last edited by CiDirkona; 12-14-2010 at 04:16 PM.

  2. #42
    Boolit Buddy Tmaloy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CiDirkona View Post
    Got all my parts, but all I could find for piston seals were neoprene rubber grommets that just happen to fit perfectly into the tube. What's everyone else using for this? It should work, but I won't know until I try it, I suppose...
    CiDirkona,

    I don't have much experience with neoprene, but I am under the assumption that it is supposed to be a breathable material which may allow air to leak through it, I think, the best thing to do is try it and see if it works. A plumbing supply or hardware store should have something like this.

    http://www.doitbest.com/Toilet+seats...sku-411842.dib

    These will have a firm snug fit that should provide a good seal to maintain pressure. I have a few left over, PM me if you need a couple.

    Happy Holidays,
    Troy
    Last edited by Tmaloy; 12-15-2010 at 07:49 AM. Reason: Added additional comments

  3. #43
    Boolit Buddy
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    I found some that were 1 1/4" wide, but that seems like it's way TOO tight to fit. The inside diameter of my tube is 1.087 and the outside diameter of the stock spring pressure piston seal is 1.091. The neoprene gromets fit nearly perfectly, but since they're somewhat odd shaped and get wider when I crank down the washers on them, I'm not sure they'll make a good seal.

    I'll try finding those seals. Thanks!

    AAAnnnd it suddenly clicks why you have the toilet repair kit in the original post...

    Oh -- and has anyone thought of making a small minitank for the top of the sizer? I'm thinking 8" or so of 1" pipe would have enough volume to keep the pressure relatively stable without having the big tank on my reloading desk.
    Last edited by CiDirkona; 12-15-2010 at 01:08 PM.

  4. #44
    Boolit Buddy Tmaloy's Avatar
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    Ok CiDirkona have you been peeking in my head? I was going to make a video of possibly making such a unit along with some other tips. I have some pieces lying around and was going to give it a shot.

  5. #45
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    I went to Home/Engineering Depot last night and pieced together all the parts, Basically, there's a 1x8" galvanized pipe on the top, cap on the top end, a three way 1/4" MIP that has a one way check valve (inward) and a male tool disconnect to the side and the regulator dowward with a female disconnect that can drop right onto the male tool disconnect on the knurled knob. Home Depot didn't have any of the one way check valves and I wasn't about to drop $11 or so on a ball valve for something I wanted a check valve for. Harbor Freight has a decently nice regulator for $10 that I plan on getting as well.

    I should be able to crank the minitank volume up to around 120psi that my garage compressor can take, and that should hopefully last me a few lube fills, especially if we only need 30psi or so past the regulator. The cheapest 1/4 check valve I can find is on grainger for almost $7... yowch.

    Another update: I have 5 different shops to visit today -- but I found all the parts in town. (My friends will atest to this - when I get an engineering goal in mind, waiting for shipping is not an option.) A 1x8" pipe will give me just over 6 cubic inches of 120psi air, which should be good for I'm guessing 3 or 4 sticks of lube worth without a recharge, and no tank on the desk.
    Last edited by CiDirkona; 12-16-2010 at 04:21 PM.

  6. #46
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    PVC Pipe could be used instead of steel.

  7. #47
    Boolit Buddy
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    I had a tater accelerator pop on me once. I'll stick with steel.

    PVC would be lighter and larger volume though, that's for sure. Isn't 100+psi a bit much for schedule 40 ?
    Last edited by CiDirkona; 12-16-2010 at 05:00 PM.

  8. #48
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    Yes, I'd go with schedule 80 in 3" diameter or less, max operating pressure is > 200 psi @ room temp.

  9. #49
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    Looked around Home Depot for a while and decided to go with the steel minitank.



    The sad news.... is that it doesn't work. My piston seals work well enough that the piston doesn't move down to the lube and push on it -- and even if it did, it doens't seem to be adding much force due to the short piston and pressures balancing out on top and bottom of the piston without that vent hole being there on a long piston to provide a pressure difference. I'm guessing I'll need a longer piston than the 2" one I'm going with now -- and that vent hole is cucial for making a pressure differenctial.

    Second problem is that the minitank weighs so much that it pulls the lower disconnect valve off center enough that it leaks. I could have gone with 'automotive' style' disconnects that may have remedied this issue... but I didn't originally...

    Good news is that the tank, regulator and check valve fill system work great. I can charge the tank with 80psi and adjust the pressure around just fine withouth losing much tank pressure. Bad news is that if I ever pull it off and put it on, there's not enough pressure down below the regulator to go past 30psi or so...





    ...aaaand I'm back to the screw-n-spring pressure system.
    Last edited by CiDirkona; 12-17-2010 at 02:06 AM.

  10. #50
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Received my adapter thursday and it was worth the wait. It provides a nice large area for the O ring to seal nicely. It looks like the previous picture that I posted.
    If anyone is interested it is Russell PN 640980

  11. #51
    Boolit Buddy Tmaloy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CiDirkona View Post
    Looked around Home Depot for a while and decided to go with the steel minitank.



    The sad news.... is that it doesn't work. My piston seals work well enough that the piston doesn't move down to the lube and push on it -- and even if it did, it doens't seem to be adding much force due to the short piston and pressures balancing out on top and bottom of the piston without that vent hole being there on a long piston to provide a pressure difference. I'm guessing I'll need a longer piston than the 2" one I'm going with now -- and that vent hole is cucial for making a pressure differenctial.

    Second problem is that the minitank weighs so much that it pulls the lower disconnect valve off center enough that it leaks. I could have gone with 'automotive' style' disconnects that may have remedied this issue... but I didn't originally...

    Good news is that the tank, regulator and check valve fill system work great. I can charge the tank with 80psi and adjust the pressure around just fine withouth losing much tank pressure. Bad news is that if I ever pull it off and put it on, there's not enough pressure down below the regulator to go past 30psi or so...





    ...aaaand I'm back to the screw-n-spring pressure system.
    Measure the Star piston bottom seal with a caliper and record the diameter of the original seal. Do the same for the tank washer if you mounted it on the Star piston and try this, get the piston you made and chuck the threaded end into a drill, not to tight that you crush the threads, get a piece of wood and staple some coarse sandpaper on it. Spin the opposite side of the piston over the sandpaper and reduce the rubber washer diameter to the point where it does not have a friction fit inside the lube body or is the same size as the Star piston seal, you want the threaded side to be the one that has all the pressure applied to it. This may solve your pressure negation problem since there is less resistance going downward without equal force being applied against each other. This may even enable you to use less pressure to apply the downward force. Also, do you preheat your lube to make sure it is able to flow freely? Let me know if this helps.

    On another note if you had a piece of 1/4" rod equivalent to the length of the home made air tank you made, threaded the rod on the ends a little and mounted nut, steel washer, rubber washers, steel washer again and a nut on each end and assembled one end inside the cylinder and the other passed in through the lube cap. BOOM! a homemade Magma style air cylinder! All you would need to do is mount the regulator on top. Still need an air source though.

  12. #52
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    I thought about turning down the washers until they fit, but didn't have the time to do so. The grommets seem to work for now, and get a good enough seal that they definitely do the trick. I think I'm going to make my piston longer so that lube pushing end and air piston end are further apart to make use of the vent hole, rather than blocking the vent hole off. I think it'll be the simplest way to fix my dilema. There's a hardware store that carries that exact Do It Best tank washers, but it's a mom n' pop hardware shop that's open for 17 minutes a day...

    I only use a TINY bit of heat (only barely noticeably warm) with Carnauba Red. I've found any more than slightly warm makes the lube get white edges and not stick in the groove as well. Tiny bit of heat and and a decent amount of pressure will fill the lube groove perfectly every time.

    I lubed about 1500 boolits last night, and I used to average only 300-400 with my LAM in the same amount of time, so whether I get this air piston fancy thing up and running, I'm still more than happy with the way this Star works -- worth every penny.


  13. #53
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    6bg6ga, the picture of the fitting looks like it may be a stainless piece, is it? The common hardware union flare I used works good, but the nut area is a little thinner than I would like for the O ring seal. Where did you buy your fitting and how much? It's good to have an inventory of usable parts for the star!!Good job and Thank You for following up. Let us know how it works for you. Rod

  14. #54
    Boolit Buddy Tmaloy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodsvet View Post
    6bg6ga, the picture of the fitting looks like it may be a stainless piece, is it? The common hardware union flare I used works good, but the nut area is a little thinner than I would like for the O ring seal. Where did you buy your fitting and how much? It's good to have an inventory of usable parts for the star!!Good job and Thank You for following up. Let us know how it works for you. Rod
    Rod, according to the link I found it is for an Edelbrock intake manifold.

    http://tmmotorsports.net/russell/rus.../i-300284.aspx

    Hmm....maybe the local speed shop has one of these, I use to love working on my dad's 1980 vette. Never had the chance to hop up my 77 Camaro, cause it was stolen and wrecked....damn thieves. Hope this helps.

    Troy

  15. #55
    Boolit Master
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    Troy, The fitting that 6bg6ga shows appears to be different fitting than the Edelbrock part. Edelbrock owns Russell and none of the sites have a picture. Hopefully he will get back to us and we can check out the fitting. I don't mind the teflon tape, but maybe the fitting he purchased is a better fit on the O ring. I called Magma Engineering and they told me the screw nut for the Star is $11.50 plus shipping. I may pick one up and tig weld a 1/4 pipe nipple into the top to eliminate any potential leak or loosening. Or maybe just use some super epoxy to affix the brass fitting permanently. Hell, it's just fun tinkering around with this stuff. P.S. I picked up a Harbor freight air tank for $25.00 just so I wouldn't have to hear my compressor running in the garage. It works great. For guys in condo's or apartments this would be the ticket. Talk to you later. Rod

  16. #56
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Hi,

    The picture I posted is the actual fitting. It is a steel fitting that has a zink plating. I purchased it from Pace Performance in Niles Ohio. Their web site is www.paceperformance .com The part sells for $7.54 and has a $9.68 shipping and Paypal cost for a total of $17.22 I would assume that any car parts speed shop could order it. I purchased it because it has a nice surface for the O ring to seal. I purchased it on the 26 of Nov and received it the other day. If I my add that others have found a more cost effective piece.

    A picture of the adapter and a 1/4 NPT fitting. Second picture is the fitting and my $6.97 regulator. Regulator is from ebay $6.97 and $3.16 shipping.


    http://paceperformance.com/search.html?q=640980
    Last edited by 6bg6ga; 08-21-2014 at 06:59 AM.

  17. #57
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Update

    Don't buy the ebay regulator because it won't go below 40 psi.

  18. #58
    Boolit Buddy AJ Peacock's Avatar
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    Home depot only solution (under $40)

    Reading this thread inspired me last night. I decided that I should be able to do this mod with nothing more than stuff available at Home Depot.

    Here are some pics. It's not the most elegant solution, I did grow up on a farm with no money.

    As everyone reading this thread knows, there aren't any fittings at Home Depot that will fit into the top of the Star's cap. But I had another idea. I decided to try to build a compression seal by using a 1/4" x 2" brass nipple and neoprene gromets/washers. The first time I tried putting it together, I couldn't get enough compression on the assembly. So I dis-assembled and used only a single wrap of teflon tape (so I could tighten the fittings a little closer). The second time, everything snugged up nice and tight. I greased the neoprene washer/grommets, so I wouldn't snag them while tightening them.

    Here are a couple pics of the parts, assembly and final product.



    I used the 1/2"x1/4" adapter, since it has a little more bearing surface against the neoprene washer than a 3/8"x1/4" adapter.
    It might have worked better using 2 grommets, but I only grabbed one. If I ever take it apart, I'll probably open up the hole in the washer and put a grommet there instead.






    I had to see how high the pressure would hold, I heard a very slight leak at about 70psi. I backed it back down to 50psi and the leak stopped. I was able to move room temperature carnuba red at about 30psi, so I think with my heater on and the air at 20-25psi, I'll be in high cotton.

    AJ

  19. #59
    Boolit Buddy
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    The home depot part that fits the star cap is A-182, but I do like your creative solution as well.

    I finally rebuilt my piston with the Do It Best washers, but they leak just enough that the minitank only lasts a minute or two before draining... I think a 5 gallon desk top tank may be in my near future...

  20. #60
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    Forget the air tanks on the bench, just use a small tire filler compressor like this one from Sears. Goes up to 180 psi, lasts dang near forever, runs on 12 volts. I just use an old motorcycle/weedwhacker/alarm battery to run it. Cut the tire filler valve off the end and put a quick disconnect on the hose and hooked it directly to my Magma air tank. Even if the power goes out I am good to go. Mine even has a small air tank built in.
    Last edited by Springfield; 08-08-2012 at 11:11 PM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check