Took my 45-90 out today on a date

[omgb]

I got the Pedersoli 45-90 Sharps out today. It's been a while. Any way, I had ten rounds with me. I set up and adjusted the tang sight for 400 yards. I got ready and on the first shot, rang the 400 yard gong. 9 shots later I was ten for ten without even blow tubing. White Lightening lube, an LBT 550 grain Postel Style and a duplex load of RL7 and GOEX 2F did the trick. Dang I love that gun.

[Montanan]

I love it when a day at the range goes off with a good clang on the gong targets.

[9.3X62AL]

Yessir, the 200 meter metal gets a lot more of my business at the range than the paper targets get--for sure.

[Boz330]

Amazing how satisfyng a good solid clang is compared to a hole in a peice of paper. On the other hand the paper is good for determining the best load for a clang.

Bob

[catkiller45]

I have to ask,why the duplex load..I have never tried them before..Are they legal for comp..How do you load them? Are you compressing still or is this no longer needed with the duplex? I would like to hear more about these loadings...John

[omgb]

Duplex smokeless and BP loads are not leagal for comp in the Us but are in Canada if the rules have not changed.

The advantage is that they burn almost as cleanly as pure smokeless loads but with the consistancy and low pressure of BP. The huge reduction in fouling is a real plus. I don't need a blow tube and can shoot 20 or more rounds without having accuracy fall off.

Loading them is easy. First, obtain the volume measuremnt of your full BP load. 10% of that is your smokeless charge by weight. For example, a BP load of 70 grains of 2F by volume would call for a 7 grain duplex charge of smokless under 63 grains of 2F. In sum, you substitute up to 10% of the charge with smokeless and then reduce the BP charge by the amount of smokeless used. the tricky thing is to remember that the smokeless is done by weight and the BP is done by volume.

I still add the BP using a drop tube and I still compress the charge but I try and keep the compression down to .25-.125" in other words, from a quarter to an eigth of an inch.

I have used RL 7 and 2400 for the smokeless charge with RL 7 giving the best results.

Some guys hate duplex loads because they argue, it's not a purest approach. I would argue back that when smokeless first became available, all of the top shooters were tripping all over themselves to come up with duplex loads. The convenience is obvious. Given the small amount of smokeless used and the huge volume of the cases involved and the type of smokeless used, pressure issues are non-existant.

So, what it comes down to is a matter of personal choice. I like them so I use them. Shooting is supposed to be fun. If it's not fun, i won't do it ....there's enough thankless work to go around without making more. This is fun for me so, I do it. YMMV

[mazo kid]

OMGB, I haven't loaded any duplex....yet, but I believe you are right about the early smokeless users. !n '92 we had attended the Western rendezvous at Polebridge, Mt. and afterwards we visited with a good friend up at Marion. He had a fantastic collection of original Sharps rifles. He loaded up a box of 40-90s and we went to his backyard 200 yd range and I shot my very first Sharps rifle. Anyway, he used an old Ideal powder dispenser that had 2 separate compartments; one smaller one for smokeless and one for black. I've been looking for one ever since. Emery

[versifier]

Mazo Kid,
I would ask Floodgate about the powder measure in question. He is our resident guru on antique loading tools. I would like to see a picture of one if you locate it. It sounds interesting (though more from a "How the hell did they do that?" kind of curiosity).

[omgb]

There was one on Ebay this past week. It sold for over $250. In truth, one chamber is supposed to be for shot and the other for powder. It was part of an early Ideal system for shotshell loading. I may have a photo if I dig around. I'll look.

[waksupi]

OMGB, I haven't loaded any duplex....yet, but I believe you are right about the early smokeless users. !n '92 we had attended the Western rendezvous at Polebridge, Mt. and afterwards we visited with a good friend up at Marion. He had a fantastic collection of original Sharps rifles. He loaded up a box of 40-90s and we went to his backyard 200 yd range and I shot my very first Sharps rifle. Anyway, he used an old Ideal powder dispenser that had 2 separate compartments; one smaller one for smokeless and one for black. I've been looking for one ever since. Emery

I see you were at Polebridge. I was at all three Nationals held there, as our group put them on. And then to Marion? Were you shooting at Austin Monks? He has passed away, since. I know other long range shooters up there, Iron Kettle, Merical, some others.

[Bob S]

"Duplex smokeless and BP loads are not leagal for comp in the Us"

Duplex loads ARE allowed in US competition (Rule 3.17)

US rules also allow artificial support (crossed sticks and sand bags) and DST triggers, which is enough to keep me away. I'd like to shoot LR with traditional Creedmore rules (10 lb rifle, plain trigger 3 lb min pull, no artificial support.) I was encouraged when the first BPCR provisional rules came out about 13 years ago with the traditional LR rules, but then the silhouette shooters took over the "target rifle" game, and there is no true traditional BP LR shooting here in the US.


Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Bigjohn]

Have you ever been at a match where you get some knowitallloudenmouth telling you that you couldn't possibly be hitting the target "At that distance with that calibre!"

One round on the metal gong and a backup shot sure shuts 'em up.

That's one reason I like shootin' gongs as much as paper.

John.

[floodgate]

mazo kid, omgb:

The early Ideal No. 2, and the later No. 6 powder measures were specifically designed for duplex loading of metallic cartridges. At first, because the BP primers would not reliably ignite the early "nitro" powders, a few grains of BP were dropped in cranking the measure one way; then a reverse motion would drop the main charge of smokeless. It was a bit later, that people moved over to the scheme of using a few grains of smokeless over the (now, reliable) primer and under the main BP charge to blow out most of the fouling. And yes, Reece, there were also shotshell loading tools which could be used to drop two different powder charges for metallics. In fact, there was even a No. 4 THREE-barrelled Ideal measure, to load with two powders and one charge of shot, for shotshells; I suppose one COULD set it up for triplex powder charges, like the original Ful mer & Casull experimentals, or some of those O'Neal, Keith and Hopkin played with in the 'thirties.

The "odd-numbered" Ideal measures were the "standard" ones, the early No. 1 and the later No.5 for single-charging metallic cases, and the No. 3 with one shot hopper and one for powder, for shotshells.

floodgate

[omgb]

Well I'll be dipped in r'coon dropp'ns. I had no idea. Perhaps the little gem on Ebay was not what I thought it was ...hmmm. Well thanks for the education. Presently, I use my #5 for the main PB charge and my Belding and Mull for the small smokeless charge. Works for me any way.

[omgb]

Here's some more of my musings on the topic of duplexed BP loads. First, those big cartridge cases such as the 45-90 really don't lend themselves well to smokeless powder. Yah, I know, AA5744 works well sort of. In truth, any one who has shot any of the smokeless loads up against good old BP in the 45-70 and 45-90 will have to admit that the BP loads were more accurate. The problem comes after you have fired more than 5 shots or so. BP fouls things up quickly. To prevent this you have to use things like a lube cookie (eats up valuable powder space) a blow tube (a real PITA) or hotter primers, smaller primer holes, less/more compression, uberlubes, balck magic, voodoo etc. So, things get complicated real quick. Enter duplexing. With just a tad of fast burning smokeless under that BP you get the best of both worlds. Fast, clean burn and steady, even pressure that does not over burden the bullet or the barrel.

Idiots have caused lots of problems by ignoring sound loading advice and using way too much smokless or smokless that is way too fast i.e. Bullsye etc. If done correctly, duplexing gives you the clean burn of smokeless and the even velocity and pressure of BP.

I switched over last year and will not be returning to either the dark side (BP alone) or the light (straight smokeless).

Now to the purests who want to give me grief for my choice I say.... horse hockey.

[NickSS]

I have used both duplex and straight black powder for many years and I prefer straight black out to 600 yards and I use a blow tube between shots. I have fired up to 100 rounds without cleaning using a blow tube with consistent accuracy. What I use Duplex loads for is 800 to 1000 yards. I shoot a 45-70 or a 45-90 and the duplex loads guve me more velocity. Like in my 45-70 I use six gr of RL7 and 62 gr of FFG. This give me higher velocities than a straight FFG load of black with the same compression. I have found that the little boost in velocity is important at longer ranges. I have also found that it takes me longer to clean my rifles when I use duplex loads than straight black. I don't know why this is but it is a fact.

[mazo kid]

waksupi, you have email. Eemry

[Montanan]

I also like to duplex using Reloaders #7... just finished loading up my hunting rounds, hopefully out west of town (Kalispell) for those in my area, my son and I are hoping to hook into some whitetail

[omgb]

I jsut cast up a mess of LBT LFN 550 grain 45 bullets that I'm going to hurl at some steel tomorrow. These are the longest trash cans I've ever cast. I thought 520 was big ....these are ginormous.

[PatMarlin]

Do you guys know how to make steel gongs?

I've never seen one, but I sure would like to make a few..