Single Action revolvers for self-defense?

[shotstring]

First of all Brett, I must apologize for the manner of my original post. It is definitely a case of saying something in a way that "even if you're right, you're wrong". When I got up this morning far more clear headed, I still remembered everything I had written....in horror I might add. I really am sorry. It was caused by a chemical imbalance from two prescriptions I am taking for a nerve disorder. I have experienced it before so I know exactly what it was, and for that reason don't take the two together at the same time. Apparently being sick with the flu kicked a combination of the two into my system.
In any event, please disregard anything I said and more importantly, the way in which I said it. That is not the normal me. I feel really bad about it.

As for the the inconsistencies you pointed out, they are certainly valid but more because of a limitation of typing space and explanation than anything else. I just used a single action cocked and locked as one example since it addressed the hammer issues of the single action.

But my experience has been that the automatic of today, be it single action or even more so with quality double action autos, that the jam has almost become a myth of the past. At least in a practical time frame. I own 6 autos that have all had at least 500 rounds fired from each of them, and several that have reached several thousand rounds fired, without experiencing a single failure to feed or failure to fire. Granted, that was not the case 20 years ago except for a few very expensive examples or extensive hand work being done. But these days, you can buy a Sig or a CZ or several other quality brands right of the shelf and experience no more malfunctions than with a good revolver. I also have several 1911s that are as reliable or nearly so, but are not inexpensive weapons.

A double action auto would also address all of the safety issues that have been talked about. They take far less training than a single action auto and function pretty much like a revolver with the exceptions of a more complicated take down and a hammer that remains back after a person is done shooting. But most people cock a SA before they intend to fire it, so the same issues apply there, and there is still the issue of lowering the hammer safely. In this regard, the double action autos are the safer of the two as most have automated hammer drop safeties. So, in my mind, the safest firearm combined with the largest magazine capacity, freedom from jamming and ease of use would be the double action auto and not the single action auto or the single action revolver. But I didn't point that out, so my bad.

[shotstring]

I apparently waited to long, and was unable to go into and add to my last post, so I will add here just a bit more clarification on the 1911 cocked and locked subject.

As I mentioned, I used it as an example primarily because it was single action like the SA revolver we are talking about. I used it as an example because it has probably one of the worst failure records of all the autos. Granted, much of this has to do with using untest and unmatched ammunition, unpolished feed ramps and most importantly improper main spring tension for the round being used.

But I still used this gun as an example because in spite of all this, it is still safer to handle WITH THE HAMMER BACK than any standard SAA revolver, and much safer to draw because there is a safety always engaged, unlike with a SAA revolver. I mentioned the first round being chambered, because even if the gun jams, the first round will aways fire. It was probably rather lame of me to use the worst example rather than the best example, but it made sense to me at the time.

And granted, while some autos like the venerable 1911 have had some jamming issues in the past, the revolvers are not without issues. I have had several new revolvers, both single and double action revolvers, new and out of the box, with failures to fire using factory ammunition. The culprit most often was light primer hits. The second was failure of the cylinder to line up properly, which is rather scarce but it did happen to me on two occasions with two different revolvers.

Anyway, that is the end of my clarifying segment. Just some of my ideas, so take them for what you think they're worth.

[Sixgun Symphony]

The 1911 was designed for FMJ ammunition. Use that and it's utterly reliable. Check on the 1984 tests by the US military for a new service pistol. The 1911A1 did remarkably well against the other pistols brought in for trials to replace it.

As far as single action revolvers, it's really about the user. Some people do really well with them as they get alot of practice. A large caliber single action revolver will get the job done.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I love them all. My 1911, Browing Hi Power and EAA Witness are fine and reliable combat handguns.

That being said I also love my 5 Ruger Blackhawks. The balance and handling characteristics of these SA Revolvers has it all over the Semi Auto Pistols except maybe the the Browning.

I have a .30 Carbine with the 7 1/2 bbl and it is a joy to shoot and handle albeit somewhat loud it produces a horrendeous muzzle blast big enuf to toast a side of beef. My .38/357/9MM convertible in the 4 5/8 bbl is easy to pack, conceal and is a great shooter and joy to just hold in my hand. My .44 Bisley BH with the 5 1/2 bbl is a tack driver and handles and points perfectly. A .45 Colt with a brass frame, Jigged grips and a 45/8 bbl also is a real fun gun to shoot and can be loaded up to way beyond .45 Colt SAAMI specs and the gun will handle it. My latest little joy is a 327 Federal Magnum 8 shooter with the 5 1/2 bbl in Stainless.

So for the most part these weapons reside with me in various location about the home in concealed locations, loaded and ready for business.

When out of the house I am usually packing a .44 Special Charter Arms Bulldog Pug with the 2 1/2 bbl and fixed sights with out any hammer spur. Along with that goes a El Paso Saddelry belt slide with 12 fresh rounds. If I go into a really bad neighborhood then I pack the Browning with 3 extra mags along with the hideout .44.

I have been handling and shooting firearms for over 60 years and I as a former LEO am well familiar with the consequences of using any firearm for defense of myself or another. I have fired tens of thousands of rounds on the range and out in the field hunting or woods bumming and the most comfortable, reliable, accurate and useful handgun for me is a Ruger SA revolver.

However when my butt is on the line I want a modern DA revolver with a big slow boolit backed up by my Browning and its set of 4 15 round magazines filled with the best high tech and modern ammo I can buy.

I am a trogodolite and I do not care who knows it.

[Bret4207]

First of all Brett, I must apologize for the manner of my original post. It is definitely a case of saying something in a way that "even if you're right, you're wrong". When I got up this morning far more clear headed, I still remembered everything I had written....in horror I might add. I really am sorry. It was caused by a chemical imbalance from two prescriptions I am taking for a nerve disorder. I have experienced it before so I know exactly what it was, and for that reason don't take the two together at the same time. Apparently being sick with the flu kicked a combination of the two into my system.
In any event, please disregard anything I said and more importantly, the way in which I said it. That is not the normal me. I feel really bad about it.

There you go, all is well and forgiven and I thank you for posting that. As someone who has written things that somehow sound different to someone else than to me, I understand completely. 'Nuff said.

[bob208]

i have read a lot of bickering and a lot of ideas and a lot of how too. but i have only read of 2 people that have used a single action for self defense. me and one other. and we both did not feel under gunned. or any of the other arguments. we just got the job done.

[Hang Fire]

IMO, the 1873 Colt SA is one of the most natural pointing handguns there is, they got it right the first time and it lives on. All I can add is, I have a 126 year old 1873 Colt SA in .44-40 I shoot with black powder only. No way would a perp want to be on the receiving end of that 200 grain soft lead slug.

The 2nd most natural pointer for defence/offence IMO, is the 1911, and again, John Browning got it right the first time. People keep trying to improve the 1911, but it is hard to improve on original pupose designed perfection.

[Bret4207]

See, that's one of those personal preference things Hang Fire. To me, a Colt SAA feels like I'm holding a baseball bat wrong way to. To me the most natural pointing gun is a 4" K or L frame Smith wearing some grip with a filler and open backstrap, followed by a J frame Smith. The 1911's all end pointing down for me, not very natural.

Someplace out there some odd duck probably feels the Astra 600 or Bergman is a natural pointer.

[2wheelDuke]

I just got one of these, it's single action



The good thing is that .22lr is cheap to practice with. I've been shooting it until it's too hot to hold making sure I can count on it when I need it.

With some practice, I've got to where I can empty the cylinder almost as fast as I could fire 6 shots with a semi-auto.

So far, I'm not able to draw and get the 1st shot off anywhere near as fast as I could with a subcompact IWB though, but that's understandable.

[Hogpost]

Hang Fire, you & me, pal: see my post from last July on exactly that subject: 44-40 in BP. The effect of that thing going off inside a house room is comparable to a flash/bang grenade.

Perhaps we might all agree (good luck...) on a few points that have been made here, on the understanding that I thought the purpose of this thread was to discuss home defense, or perhaps individual CC out-and-about, rather than an officer or agent engaged in assaulting a drug-running or terrorist cell:

1. The gun is less significant than the user: a trained, well-practiced, competent and confident man with a 22 or a flintlock is safer than an unpracticed man with a 15-round auto or an RPG. The world is full of untrained big-city punks with hi-cap 9mms that can't hit the ground; I see them at ranges every day, trying to stay anywhere on the paper at 20 feet.

2. The majority of confrontations in the home, or even on the streets, are settled with the first 1 or 2 hits; and it is unbelievably rare for more than 3 individuals to break into a home.

2. A big soft, even if slow, bullet is more likely to incapacitate with the first round than a smaller one. Too many bad guys have hurt people after taking 2 or 3 9mm rounds including hollowpoints; bure rarely does an attacker continue forward after taking a 200+ grain soft lead slug anywhere on his body.

3. Therefore, noting that single actions are generally large bore (44-40, 45LC, 44Mag) a trained & practiced individual who is most competent with a single action is well justified in using that piece for self defense; and it would indeed be silly for him to throw away his established defensive capability by "switching" to something more modern (or fashionable) in hopes he can become proficient with the new piece before some dipwad starts punching in his kitchen door.

Sound reasonable?

[Bret4207]

Makes sense to me. But I still like a DA Smith mo' better!

[Hang Fire]

Agree. For me, with the natural pointing Colt SA in the dark, I wouldn't need to see the target, (AKA perp) I could instictively point and shoot at a shadow, movement, or even sound without forethought.

OTOH, my wife who is is 71 years young, sleeps with a 3" cylinder Judge under her pillow. Three with #4 shot and two with triple ought buck. (five 9mm lead balls each bang) She practices with it regulary.

[Hogpost]

Hang Fire, with deepest humility, permit me to offer a word of advice after 48 years of marriage to a highly competent lady shooter:
DO NOT PISS HER OFF IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT!

[Hang Fire]

Tell me about it. We have been married 52 years, and just to rub salt, she has more guns than I do

[kweidner]

Funny on the judge. Tread lightly my friend. I believe the best gun for SD is the one you are most comfortable with, shoot regularly, and can put the boolits where it counts. If it is a 44 Sbh or 1911, XD, or DA revolver, it needs to be second nature. High capacity is irrelevant if you can do right by the sights. If you need more than a couple it's gonna be real ugly and you might be better with a riot gun than a pistol. JMHO

[johnmerry]

Ruger Bisley .45 Colt 4 3/4 barrel Lbt 315gr. KEITH 8.5 gr Unigue 850 fps

[gunfan]

I routinely carry a DAO pistol, DAO revolver or "Safe-Action" pistol for SD work. If it works for you, SHOOT IT!

Scott

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I had a guy point a machine gun at me back in the early 1980's, I held my Security Six 6" with 158 gr Speer semi jacketed hollow points front sight on his chest and at that moment wished I had my SBH 7 1/2" with Keith bullets. I really wanted to hit him hard with a big bullet, speed in reloading didn't matter. I wanted a superior trigger like a single action, not a double action trigger pull. I knew this guy, he had been shot with a bunch of .38's and survived before. His attitude was real bad. It was an "elephant in the bush" moment. I'd preferred a single action. I was a uniformed LEO and not allowed to carry a single action.

[Char-Gar]

I had a guy point a machine gun at me back in the early 1980's, I held my Security Six 6" with 158 gr Speer semi jacketed hollow points front sight on his chest and at that moment wished I had my SBH 7 1/2" with Keith bullets. I really wanted to hit him hard with a big bullet, speed in reloading didn't matter. I wanted a superior trigger like a single action, not a double action trigger pull. I knew this guy, he had been shot with a bunch of .38's and survived before. His attitude was real bad. It was an "elephant in the bush" moment. I'd preferred a single action. I was a uniformed LEO and not allowed to carry a single action.

I would have been craving a shotgun over any handgun in that moment.

[shotstring]

I had a guy point a machine gun at me back in the early 1980's, I held my Security Six 6" with 158 gr Speer semi jacketed hollow points front sight on his chest and at that moment wished I had my SBH 7 1/2" with Keith bullets. I really wanted to hit him hard with a big bullet, speed in reloading didn't matter. I wanted a superior trigger like a single action, not a double action trigger pull. I knew this guy, he had been shot with a bunch of .38's and survived before. His attitude was real bad. It was an "elephant in the bush" moment. I'd preferred a single action. I was a uniformed LEO and not allowed to carry a single action.

That's probably the best argument for a single action with a large caliber that I have ever heard. There are some times when you just want that one, powerful action-stopping shot that will make a very bad situation go away instantly. Anything short of that is just too unpleasant to think about.

My experience of that moment wasn't with a firearm at all, but came while stalking a 700 pound record class black bear in the Sierras with only a bow. After getting to within 60 yards of the brute, she turned and headed directly at me and the large pine I was hiding behind. Now while a lung or heart shot will certainly kill the bear at 2 feet or less, which is how close she would come to me, it would take way too long to save me if she got ticked off, and having a pair of 2 year old cubs with her didn't improve the odds. I remember it like it was yesterday, the the bow with the muzzy broadhead notched to it felt like straw in my hands. I looked down at the bow, and it was like I actually had golden dry yellow straw in my hands rather than a weapon.

What I wouldn't have given for something in the 375 class or better at that moment. Wind was blowing towards me, so she couldn't smell me, but fortunately with 10 yards left before she and her cubs reached me, she nonchalantly turned 45 degrees and walked slowly away with her cubs playing around behind her.