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View Poll Results: Do you think a SA revolver makes a good self-defense handgun?

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  • Yes.

    335 34.50%
  • No. The fact that they are SA, have slow reloads, bulky hammers, etc… makes them a poor choice.

    119 12.26%
  • If that is what you feel comfortable with then go for it.

    517 53.24%
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Thread: Single Action revolvers for self-defense?

  1. #221
    Boolit Master
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    While not my first choice, if the clock was getting on to High Noon, this could be comforting.



    But for everyday, I still like my 4" N frame in 45 ACP.
    Knowledge I take to my grave is wasted.

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  2. #222
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    I have been carrying a Colt Sheriff's Model chambered in .44-40 WCF. I will have to produce a CCW video soon and publish it on youtube.com.

  3. #223
    Boolit Master ColColt's Avatar
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    I had(past tense) a Ruger three screw 4 5/8" 45 Colt that resided near my night stand for many rears. It was loaded with 9 gr of Unique and the Keith 255 gr SWC and I didn't feel under gunned. However, it's not 1975 anymore and criminals don't usually come brave enough to be alone so, it got replaced with the S&W 4506 and 230 gr JHP's a few years ago.
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  4. #224
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    I can't believe this thread is up to page 12 with people still debating if single action revolvers are 1) adequate for self defense 2) the best or as good as anything else for self defense.

    This isn't rocket science and people have repeatedly pointed out the obvious, but still people persist in believing that a single action can be as good as other alternative firearms for self defense.

    It is not. Plain and simple. No logical argument to the contrary is possible, and I love single actions to bits - one of my favorite types of firearms.

    It is a given that a single action is far slower to reload than both double action revolver and automatic alike. That alone is enough to disqualify the single action as "the best possible" for defense. We all know this. Some single actions will hold 8, but most are reduced to holding 6 bullets, while some can only safely or by design hold 5.
    As the norm is 6, using that, if you are attacked by 7 assailants, you die. Simple math, as barring a miracle, it will take at least one shot per assailant. If an assailant doesn't go down with the first shot, you would require 2 shots per "stubborn assailant". That means if there are 4 assailants, you die. Once again, simple math.

    While most lethal situations involve only 1 or 2 individuals, many others don't. A firearm that limits your success to demanding 3 or less attackers is a poor choice.

    As for the speed issue, Hogpost pointed out the reason why single action revolvers can be as quick as other handguns in getting off the first shot, by cocking the hammer as the gun is drawn. But to do so requires great skill and hours and hours of practice, and even then IS AN UNSAFE PRACTICE. That is why single action speed draw competition is limited to blanks or wax bullets. There is no safe way to cock a single action as it is being drawn...period.

    On the other hand, I single action auto like a Colt 45, does not require the hammer to be drawn back because carried cocked and locked, it is already back and can be drawn "BOTH QUICKLY AND SAFELY". Most gun fights are settled with the first shot, and as a round is already chambered for the first shot in the Colt auto or countless other auto styles and types, jamming for the first and most important shot is impossible unless it was originally chambered in error to begin with.

    To sum up, a single action revolver is adequate for self defense if it is available. So is a ball peen hammer. They are simply not the best tools available. Now can we stop???
    In these parts, often one's very life may depend on a mere scrap of information.

  5. #225
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    I can't believe this thread is up to page 12 with people still debating if single action revolvers are 1) adequate for self defense 2) the best or as good as anything else for self defense.

    This isn't rocket science and people have repeatedly pointed out the obvious, but still people persist in believing that a single action can be as good as other alternative firearms for self defense.

    It is not. Plain and simple. No logical argument to the contrary is possible, and I love single actions to bits - one of my favorite types of firearms.

    It is a given that a single action is far slower to reload than both double action revolver and automatic alike. That alone is enough to disqualify the single action as "the best possible" for defense. We all know this. Some single actions will hold 8, but most are reduced to holding 6 bullets, while some can only safely or by design hold 5.
    As the norm is 6, using that, if you are attacked by 7 assailants, you die. Simple math, as barring a miracle, it will take at least one shot per assailant. If an assailant doesn't go down with the first shot, you would require 2 shots per "stubborn assailant". That means if there are 4 assailants, you die. Once again, simple math.

    While most lethal situations involve only 1 or 2 individuals, many others don't. A firearm that limits your success to demanding 3 or less attackers is a poor choice.

    As for the speed issue, Hogpost pointed out the reason why single action revolvers can be as quick as other handguns in getting off the first shot, by cocking the hammer as the gun is drawn. But to do so requires great skill and hours and hours of practice, and even then IS AN UNSAFE PRACTICE. That is why single action speed draw competition is limited to blanks or wax bullets. There is no safe way to cock a single action as it is being drawn...period.

    On the other hand, I single action auto like a Colt 45, does not require the hammer to be drawn back because carried cocked and locked, it is already back and can be drawn "BOTH QUICKLY AND SAFELY". Most gun fights are settled with the first shot, and as a round is already chambered for the first shot in the Colt auto or countless other auto styles and types, jamming for the first and most important shot is impossible unless it was originally chambered in error to begin with.

    To sum up, a single action revolver is adequate for self defense if it is available. So is a ball peen hammer. They are simply not the best tools available. Now can we stop???
    In these parts, often one's very life may depend on a mere scrap of information.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotstring View Post
    ...As the norm is 6, using that, if you are attacked by 7 assailants, you die. Simple math, as barring a miracle, it will take at least one shot per assailant. If an assailant doesn't go down with the first shot, you would require 2 shots per "stubborn assailant". That means if there are 4 assailants, you die. Once again, simple math...
    So if you are carrying, say a self loading pistol, and attacked by 5 or 6, the last assailant will stand there waiting while you fire at the first ones?
    Knowledge I take to my grave is wasted.

    I prefer to use cartridges born before I was.

    Success doesn't make me happy, being happy is what allows me to be successful.

  7. #227
    Boolit Buddy makicjf's Avatar
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    A safe method for quick deployment and discharge of a single action revolver in a high stress situation would be:

    1)throw back cover garment and grasp handle with your index finger along the cylinder. Place support hand on stomach, somewhere around the belly button
    2) with index finger still along the cylinder, clear the leather and pivot the barrel towards the target. Point at the threat with your gun hand index finger
    3) push the revolver up and out at the target. index finger still pointing at the B.G.
    4) support hand comes up and meets and grasps the weapon at shooting level. Support hand thumb rests on the hammer. trigger finger still along the cylinder(pointing at the B.G.)
    5) if neccasary cock, frontsight, finger on the trigger, squeeze. repeat as neccasary while looking for cover or avenue for disengagement
    If I'm attacked by a half of a squad (6-7 men) unless i start from a fortified position, my odds of survival are miniscule, regardless of my choice of weapon(s). At that point I'm fighting to have a decent honor guard in hell.

    Jason
    Last edited by makicjf; 01-17-2012 at 02:50 PM.

  8. #228
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    C'mon Strawhat, with someone with enough interest in guns and reloading to belong to this forum, surely you have seen a Steel Challenge Match or something similar? I can assure you those half dozen targets don't sit around for long without being knocked down - seconds is all.

    To makicif, you are correct in that it is possible to draw a fire a revolver without putting a hole in one's person. But the point I was making is that average joe citizen does not take the time to even practice shooting let alone drawing skills. Even pros have had accidents after hundreds of entirely safe and correct draws. The timing is not easy to master even with daily practice.

    And covering the attack of 6 or 7 men, while a challenge, can certainly be accomplished but will almost always require at least one reload. Example would be where regardless of how many are involved in a home invasion robbery, they still need to get through the limited space of the front or back doors. But all this projection is just silly. The point is, a single action simply has too many drawbacks to be the best tool for the job any longer. That is why you will never see it in law enforcement or military use except for nostalgia purposes.

    But I agree with most of you that think the single action is a formidable adversary. It is. It is capable of shooting 6 people very dead very quickly. Who is going to argue with that? I'm just sayin', and we all know, that there are now better tools available.
    In these parts, often one's very life may depend on a mere scrap of information.

  9. #229
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    Dang shotstring, I sure do wish I had read your opinion 20 some years back. Why, it's a wonder I'm alive! In fact, maybe I'm dead and don't know it! If only I'd played gun games I'd have a grasp on the bestest way to do things!

    No one said a SA was "the best". Not that I recall anyway. What was said was that they can work. They can. Plain and simple. No logical argument to the contrary is possible, to use your words. One hit with a SA is better than 19 misses with a 9mm. The rest of your argument is you attempt to justify your position and you contradict yourself at least once.

    I found your post to be arrogant, insulting and full of half truths. What I really find insulting is your assertion that anyone here should stop discussing an issue just because you've put your 2 cents in. Please allow us idiots the freedom to blather on without you.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotstring View Post
    I can't believe this thread is up to page 12 with people still debating if single action revolvers are 1) adequate for self defense 2) the best or as good as anything else for self defense.

    This isn't rocket science and people have repeatedly pointed out the obvious, but still people persist in believing that a single action can be as good as other alternative firearms for self defense.

    It is not. Plain and simple. No logical argument to the contrary is possible, and I love single actions to bits - one of my favorite types of firearms.

    It is a given that a single action is far slower to reload than both double action revolver and automatic alike. That alone is enough to disqualify the single action as "the best possible" for defense. We all know this. Some single actions will hold 8, but most are reduced to holding 6 bullets, while some can only safely or by design hold 5.
    As the norm is 6, using that, if you are attacked by 7 assailants, you die. Simple math, as barring a miracle, it will take at least one shot per assailant. If an assailant doesn't go down with the first shot, you would require 2 shots per "stubborn assailant". That means if there are 4 assailants, you die. Once again, simple math.

    While most lethal situations involve only 1 or 2 individuals, many others don't. A firearm that limits your success to demanding 3 or less attackers is a poor choice.

    As for the speed issue, Hogpost pointed out the reason why single action revolvers can be as quick as other handguns in getting off the first shot, by cocking the hammer as the gun is drawn. But to do so requires great skill and hours and hours of practice, and even then IS AN UNSAFE PRACTICE. That is why single action speed draw competition is limited to blanks or wax bullets. There is no safe way to cock a single action as it is being drawn...period.

    On the other hand, I single action auto like a Colt 45, does not require the hammer to be drawn back because carried cocked and locked, it is already back and can be drawn "BOTH QUICKLY AND SAFELY". Most gun fights are settled with the first shot, and as a round is already chambered for the first shot in the Colt auto or countless other auto styles and types, jamming for the first and most important shot is impossible unless it was originally chambered in error to begin with.

    To sum up, a single action revolver is adequate for self defense if it is available. So is a ball peen hammer. They are simply not the best tools available. Now can we stop???
    That ranks among the most arrogant and elitist posts I've had the misfortune to read here. We should stop a discussion because one guy adds his 2 cents? Spare me.

  11. #231
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    Boot Hill (and others) is littered with those who have succumbed to, of all things, a single action revolver.
    It ain't rocket science, it's boolit science.

  12. #232
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    As far as I can remember of many accounts, after the first guy is shot, usually their companions remember pressing business elsewhere. If you are in a place where you may confront 7 bad guys, you will probably have the rest of your platoon with you. Use a grenade.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
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  13. #233
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    Well, I decided to stir up the pot a bit and I guess I did. Regular swarm of wasps getting stirred up is probably more like it. Given the love and respect for the single actions here, it wasn't unexpected either.

    But you folks missed my intent. It wasn't to be arrogant. Just pointing out the the argument for the thread is pointless. Of course the single action can serve as a good weapon for self defense, and I stated so, like more than a dozen other folks here. But as I also stated, so can a ball peen hammer, a tomahawk, a good knife, a rifle or even a skillet if it's good heavy cast iron.

    You asked to judge the weapon, not the skill set of the owner. Almost anything can be used for self defense and if the user is skilled enough with it, it will do the job. What is arrogant about that statement? To put a single action on a pedestal over other weapons judged superior by every law enforcement and military agency in the country, now that could be considered arrogant.

    Me personally, I could care less what a person chooses for self defense. They all work. I was merely pointing out that rehashing that single actions work for self defense for 12 pages seems silly to me unless one wishes to compare how it stacks up against other firearms as to the effectiveness for self defense. And if you do that in an unbiased way, it still shouldn't take 12 pages to arrive at a pretty obvious conclusion, either way.
    In these parts, often one's very life may depend on a mere scrap of information.

  14. #234
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    Me, personally, I don't care what you think is silly or not. Go back to post #1 and read the question. It was meant to start a discussion. If you find it all just too stupid for you to stomach then ignore the thread and leave the rest of us to enjoy hashing it it out. No pedestals involved, just a bunch of guys having a talk that you chose to try and disrupt with your opinion, which you contradict yourself on a few times BTW.

    Common courtesy and personal experience dictate that barging into a room and calling people stupid will not usually end well.

  15. #235
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    What's obvious to me is that a well placed round or two will more than likely end an altercation. Makes no difference from what it's launched. If'n yer feelin' uncomfortable, load all six. If'n yer still feelin' uncomfortable load all six in the other one.

    As far as being 12 pages of chatter. Sometimes things need to be sorted out.

    Now, where's my 1911?
    It ain't rocket science, it's boolit science.

  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207 View Post
    Me, personally, I don't care what you think is silly or not. Go back to post #1 and read the question. It was meant to start a discussion. If you find it all just too stupid for you to stomach then ignore the thread and leave the rest of us to enjoy hashing it it out. No pedestals involved, just a bunch of guys having a talk that you chose to try and disrupt with your opinion, which you contradict yourself on a few times BTW.

    Common courtesy and personal experience dictate that barging into a room and calling people stupid will not usually end well.
    For the record, I didn't call anyone stupid. I merely said the argument is. Big difference. And I worded it the way I did to hopefully get someone fired up enough to challenge me and point out where I was mistaken or gotten my facts wrong. Because so far in this thread, like many others, people just voice their opinions and don't seem to give much credence to what others say, even if they think they do. No one seems to change their minds much in these threads - I mean almost no one - no matter what evidence is presented.
    So I thought I would challenge that. Probably a stupid idea on my part. It is true that the wording of the question calls for only a yes or no, and doesn't ask specifically if the SA is better than other weapons or handguns, but it implied it. Either way, I just don't think the answer to this question is one of those where "there are no wrong answers". Either it is a suitable defense handgun or it isn't. Either there are better options or there aren't. And yes, people that aren't very familiar with firearms or are primarily familiar with a SA would probably be better served with that which they know or is more easily understood as was pointed out by one of the posters. But once again, that is putting the emphasis on the user and not on the weapon, but is certainly a consideration. And that is the reason I gave my dad one of my single actions to use for self defense. )

    Anyway, sorry I started this whole thing. Blame it on the flu and being crappy as hell, but that isn't an excuse - but it is reality. Just disregard anything I have said on this post if it upsets you, because I really didn't wish that.





    If you wish to show me where my evidence or argument is flawed, and you say I contradict myself several times, please tell me what the instances are and allow me to address them. If I'm wrong, will be happy to apologize and adjust my thinking.
    Last edited by shotstring; 01-17-2012 at 11:02 PM. Reason: Because I can be a horses behind.
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  17. #237
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    Actually, there is one scenario where the single-action IS best. I recently re-read the article in Backwoods Home Magazine, by none other than Mas Ayoob. To wit:

    IF you are spending the better part of your day on horseback, or a reasonable facsimile thereof such as an atv, dirt bike, snowmobile, etc, then you might want to prefer a single action. The archtype scenario is that you are assaulted by (rattler, cougar, 2-legged vermin) and you draw and fire to handle the situation. Then you have another potential situation - you are clinging to your mount w/ your weak hand, and said mount may be frisky. A single-action is the ONLY kind of repeating handgun you can be sure won't discharge again while you sort things out.

  18. #238
    Boolit Buddy makicjf's Avatar
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    Interestingly enough,I spend much of my spare time on a horse patroling for pigs. A marlin 30/30 or a Rossi 92 in 45 colt and one of my 45 blackhawks is always on board. These old school weapons fit my life and I'm using them in the same manner they have been used for 135+ years. I am competent and familiar enough with them due to daily use, handling and discharge I feel confident in expanding their duties to anytime anywhere. I would be less competent and familiar with a 1911 or a "Block". I could never practice enough to be familiar with them as with my hunting/packing pig defense guns. My exposure to the semi autos or even a da whellgun would not be as great.
    Is a big bore thumbuster much different in all practical purposes than an 870 12 gauge loaded with 00 buck? Both are intimidating,powerful require manual manipulation to fire and are "slow" to reload compared to more modern designs. If it were legal,who would feel undergunned with slide cannon with 4 in the tube and and 1 in thee pipe? Maybe 5 more in a butt caddy. Another thought, givin proper reloading techniques and situational management ( if possible) a lever gun and a pump shotgun can be topped without being taken from battery. A ruger would simply require snapping the loading gate shut: fire twice, open, eject the case,refill, "click" eject fill snap closed. With practice can be done in as much time as it takes to read it. If three rounds were fire, count five clicks and do the same. Subtract the number of shots from eight and thats how many clicks to the first expended round. If you lost track or are empty and pressured, pull the BUG.
    Each modality has pros and cons, but FOR ME, for the reasons I have stated, a good Ruger SA (or two) will be my primary choice for an anytime anywhere, any purpose weapon.
    JMO,
    Jason
    Last edited by makicjf; 01-18-2012 at 09:43 AM.

  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotstring View Post
    ...C'mon Strawhat, with someone with enough interest in guns and reloading to belong to this forum, surely you have seen a Steel Challenge Match or something similar? I can assure you those half dozen targets don't sit around for long without being knocked down - seconds is all...
    I have also seen and participated in scenarios where more than one shooter is involved. Amazing what a trained shooter can do. If they have any training at all, they are not going to stand and wait to get eliminated in a competition.

    One against many is usually a bad idea, regardless of weapon. The fellow at the other end of the line is either going to head for cover or start shooting back.

    I still stand by what I said in post 222, while I'd prefer the S&W, I could make do with the SAA.
    Last edited by StrawHat; 01-18-2012 at 07:28 AM.
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  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotstring View Post
    If you wish to show me where my evidence or argument is flawed, and you say I contradict myself several times, please tell me what the instances are and allow me to address them. If I'm wrong, will be happy to apologize and adjust my thinking.
    The contradictions- You claim the SA is patently unsafe to draw and cock for a fast shot, that it requires countless hours of training and practice and still is simply unsafe. Yet you advocate carrying a 1911 cocked and locked, a practice which requires a goodly amount of training and practice and is considered patently unsafe in any case by many people. Both methods require training and practice and both depend on the shooter keeping his finger off the trigger. That argument is the pot calling the kettle black, no more, no less.

    Then you go on to state that the SA is entirely unsuitable because of the apparent certainty of being attacked by multiple people. Yet, you attempt to gloss over the autos biggest issue, the jam or fail to feed, by stating that "Most gun fights are settled with the first shot, and as a round is already chambered for the first shot in the Colt auto or countless other auto styles and types[, jamming for the first and most important shot is impossible unless it was originally chambered in error to begin with." Again, setting things up so as to justify your position by ignoring what you stated earlier in the post.

    You know, if you had entered this discussion with just a little class and manners you would have been welcomed. Walking all over people and setting yourself up as the end all arbiter of things is rude, arrogant and more than a bit childish.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check