Single Action revolvers for self-defense?

[singleshot]

I have yet to see anyone draw and accurately fire any gun faster than a single-action. The first clean hit will win the fight, you can bet your life on it.

Obviously, this does not apply to military situations where more troops are willing and ready to put their life on the line.

[Doug Bowser]

I can handle a SA with either hand or both hands. I like the Colt Style SA revolvers because there is a slight step in the cylinder when loading.

I would not feel under gunned with a SA. I prefer a SIG/SAUER P225 with 147 gr HP bullets at 1000 fps. It is short and flat and easy to carry. Also, reloads are infinitely faster.

Doug Bowser

[Multigunner]

I have yet to see anyone draw and accurately fire any gun faster than a single-action. The first clean hit will win the fight, you can bet your life on it.

Obviously, this does not apply to military situations where more troops are willing and ready to put their life on the line.

The speed and natural pointing with the coordination of thumb and forefinger has made the single action revolver the handgun the greatest number of people can handle with ease and precision.
Only a relative few can handle the double action and autopistols with the same level of natural fluid movement.

An Apache warrior could pick up a Colt from the battlefield and in minutes have figured out and mastered its use.

[RJM52]

I voted "yes" as to me it is a heck of a lot better than the Mouse/Rat size guns people seem willing to entrust their lives to these days. Funny thing is everyone I have know who has gotten into a confrontation, shots fired or not, seems to have traded "comfort" for something a little more "comforting"...

As to reloading during a gunfight, I spent 30 years in LE and never saw a civillian reload. I made a 20 year study of it and can not find any. If anyone has a documented case of a civillian reload in which shots were fired "after" the reload I would really appreciate knowing about it.

This is my idea of a SA CC gun...FA 97 .41 Magnum with a 4.25" barel and round butt...in a Simply Rugged Holster...light, fast, powerful and accurate...








Bob

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have sleepwalked a few times over the years and therefore my nearby bedroom gun is a few steps away from the bed. I just cannot trust myself to be fully awake when the weapon is just a short arms reach away from me.

Ergo, my bedroom SD gun is a EAA Witness Match Elite 9 MM with one in the chamber and 17 more in the magazine and a spare magazine close by. A few steps away from the bed is a 12 Pump Shotgun loaded with no 4 buckshot and a full bandolier of 25 rounds of various loadings in 12 gauge.

In the bathroom I keep my Ruger Bisley BH 5 1/2 tubed .44 Special in the cabinet above the porcelain throne. It is handy but out of sight.

In the living room I keep a Baker side by side 12 Gauge 18 1/2 inch barrelled shotgun loaded with no 4 buckshot. This one fits really nicely under my TV table in front of my recliner and would be deployable in about one second. Also nearby is another bandolier of 12 ammo.

Next to the computer in a clip holster on the underside of a drawer resides a 9 MM Browning Hi Power loaded with 147 GR Double Tap HP loads. The magazine holds 16 rounds and there are two full ones within arms reach.

In the kitchen I keep a Taurus 1911 in 45 ACP handy in a drawer along with a handfull of magazines.

All the other weapons are kept in a locked safe in my ex's garage.

I try to give myself all the advantages I can get but I would not feel undergunned if I had to use my Ruger 45 Colt BH, Ruger OMBH in 357 Magnum nor even the Ruger .30 Carbine NMBH revolver.

The best defensive handgun you can have is the one you are carrying. I carry a Charter Arms .44 Special Bulldog Pug with a 2.5 inch bbl and no hammer spur. It is light, small, powerful and looks as mean as a viper. It is very concealable and I hardly know I am carrying it. I usually carry it open on my belt along with a 12 round loop carrier that matches the holster leather. I always have it. When I get up and get dressed the gun goes on my hip even if I never leave the trailer all day long. It is a habit. I know I can put 5 rounds of 185 GR Hornady Critical Defense ammo into anything within 15 yds really fast. If 5 rounds of this calibre and bullet combination do not stop something then it is time to seek distance and to reaload for some head shots.

I know I can hit any target with it at 15 yds. If I have to shoot at a longer distance then I can cock the hammer with the left hand and shoot single action for more accuracy. My 25 yd groups are about 3 to 4 inches. 50 yds I can get them all on a normal sized piece of notebook paper. At 100 yds I can hit a man sized target from the groin to the throat with all five every time but slowly. I have no business shooting at anything at 100 yds with this gun but just in case I practice for it. I know that I have to hold about 24" high at 100 yds but it is better than throwing rocks.

[Bret4207]

I have yet to see anyone draw and accurately fire any gun faster than a single-action. The first clean hit will win the fight, you can bet your life on it.

Obviously, this does not apply to military situations where more troops are willing and ready to put their life on the line.

Ever see a good man with a a DA Smith? Say Miculek or Bill Jordan? I agree a good first hit is important, but I don't see an advantage to the SA for that.

[Multigunner]

I have sleepwalked a few times over the years and therefore my nearby bedroom gun is a few steps away from the bed. I just cannot trust myself to be fully awake when the weapon is just a short arms reach away from me.

Ergo, my bedroom SD gun is a EAA Witness Match Elite 9 MM with one in the chamber and 17 more in the magazine and a spare magazine close by. A few steps away from the bed is a 12 Pump Shotgun loaded with no 4 buckshot and a full bandolier of 25 rounds of various loadings in 12 gauge.

In the bathroom I keep my Ruger Bisley BH 5 1/2 tubed .44 Special in the cabinet above the porcelain throne. It is handy but out of sight.

In the living room I keep a Baker side by side 12 Gauge 18 1/2 inch barrelled shotgun loaded with no 4 buckshot. This one fits really nicely under my TV table in front of my recliner and would be deployable in about one second. Also nearby is another bandolier of 12 ammo.

Next to the computer in a clip holster on the underside of a drawer resides a 9 MM Browning Hi Power loaded with 147 GR Double Tap HP loads. The magazine holds 16 rounds and there are two full ones within arms reach.

In the kitchen I keep a Taurus 1911 in 45 ACP handy in a drawer along with a handfull of magazines.

Gee, you wouldn;t happened to be in the witness protection program would you???

[Ken TN]

I carry my 45 Colt Birdshead Vaquero and use it in CASS competition. I am very familar with it and feel that if needed it would do what is needed on 2 or 4 legged perps. I practice with full power loads and carry a shot shell as my #1 shot. I use it hiking and do not like snakes...

I have seen many people try to qualify for CCW permits with an auto and they do not know how to use it or clear a jam. These people would be better off with a simple firearm, DA or SA revolver. Too many people have bought the hype of "more is better" in ammo count with the autos. A 1911 is dangerous in untrained hands and a accidental discharge is not something I want to ever hear again, a long story not needed here.

[singleshot]

Ever see a good man with a a DA Smith? Say Miculek or Bill Jordan? I agree a good first hit is important, but I don't see an advantage to the SA for that.

Yes, sir, I have seen Miculek...a thing of beauty to be sure. Certainly wouldn't want to be in a gunfight with him or Bob Munden...to say the least!

I could be wrong, but when Miculek set his world record 12 shots with a reload on target in under 3 seconds, his first shot came at .4 sec or so. SA guys, like Munden, fire the first shot in about half that time... 0.2 sec or so. From what I've seen, I'd conclude that a SA is about twice as fast, given the best that shoot each.

Does any of this really matter? Not sure...YMMV

I'm not Munden or Miculek, so I'm better off using what I can use fastest given the amount of training I'm willing to invest.

[Bret4207]

Sorry, but I fail to see how anyone could be slower with a DA than a SA unless they were trying. The additional action of having to cock the SA should slow it a bit, but I doubt in real world terms it's enough to really notice.

[singleshot]

Sorry, but I fail to see how anyone could be slower with a DA than a SA unless they were trying. The additional action of having to cock the SA should slow it a bit, but I doubt in real world terms it's enough to really notice.

You make a VERY convincing argument, Bret!

However, all the data I've seen (in addition to my own experience) is overwhelming.

It would only matter in a gunfight where fractions of a second counted. Unlikely? Absolutely!

But as I stated in my previous post, YMMV.

I may only offer this...learn the quick-draw with a single-action, then judge. I personally cannot draw and fire any of my double actions as fast as my single actions...and that by a WIDE margin. Did I mention YMMV?

[mroliver77]

Miculek has emptied a six shot on target in .57 sec. Ed Mcgivern's record of .45 sec still stands from 1932. With the resolution of 1932 timing equipment it is said it could have been from .40 to .45 second. That's a little better than .40 till the first shot!

I had a friend that could shoot a target very well with his bow. He made me look sad. We went on a walkabout one day in the woods taking shots at targets of opportunity. He did not fare near so well!
J

[Dale53]

Really, if a person is competent with either type, self defense can be handled by either. If a person is NOT competent, then all bets are off.

The only place where the single action falls behind is reloading.

This from a guy who chooses a double action revolver for daily carry.

FWIW
Dale53

[Hogpost]

I think there may actually be two reasons why a single action could be a few microseconds faster than a double action in a set-piece from-the-holster draw and 2-handed fire.

1. The SA is being cocked during the draw, and is fully cocked by the time the sights are on target. I rather doubt the DA shooter is pulling his trigger through while bringing his weapon up to firing position: that's a good way to shoot your own knee off.

2. Once the sights are on target, the SA requires only a slight pull on the trigger to fire. The DA's longer, clumsier trigger pull must be smooth and steady to prevent losing the sight picture, and will therefore be microseconds slower.

Of course, this does not apply if the DA shooter fires that first round single-action, having cocked the hammer during the draw. I do not know if Miculek does this.

But then, a "go fer yer gun" High-Noon drawdown is an unlikely scenario today, especially for home defense. Same with the need to quickly reload: if you can't hit an armed intruder with the first shot or two, you might as well just hand over your wallet.

[Bret4207]

I don't know how anyone else does it but I've got the trigger partly taken up as the gun comes to target. You're squeezing it off as the gun lines up. That "SA being cocked during the draw" part sounds like it has as much chance of slowing things as taking the trigger up in DA.

Once the guns are on target and the sights are aligned the SA requires the shooter loosing his sight picture while he cocks, taking several "micro seconds longer. The DA man is taking up the slack as the sights come down out of recoil and squeezing it off from the "stacked" position.

I'm sure the difference is small, but as a trained DA shooter and a casual SA shooter I would never, ever bet on the SA man beating an equally skilled DA man, especially after the first shot. I'm not talking games, I'm talking real life. All these games I see on TV are just that, games. I wouldn't throw a good SA away, but it darn sure wouldn't be my first choice.

[LUBEDUDE]

I have run into a number of guys that see my 45colt Ruger NM Vaquero as a poor choice of carry gun.

It's going to continue - just like Dillon guys looking down their noses at Lee equip. and PW guys looking down at Mec equip. and so on....

Not that they all do it, but many do.

It seems to be the gun culture or the human way.

[singleshot]

Here's a good instruction video on how to properly draw a single action. It comes in 5 installments if memory serves me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egvhz...eature=related

[scattershot]

As an old timer on another source said, ... If you need more than six, then maybe it's just your time to go...

[Matthew 25]

^^^^^That's some funny stuff right there, I don't care who you are!

Arguing fractions of seconds is silly for me. I used to draw and fire a Vaquero from a low holster usually under 0.6 sec (not very competitive and sure as heck not safe)...it takes me a full 3 seconds to draw and fire my CC SP101 from a hip holster wearing a jacket. For speed I'd be better off leading with a left jab.

[Bret4207]

Stick that Vaquero in a hip holster and wear a jacket and see how fast you are, or get a low holster for the SP101 and spend as mcuh time learning to draw as you did with the SA. Apples and oranges guys.