Crushing the bullet a bit when compressing the BP?

[oldracer]

Well I went to the range today to try a new and longer setup for my chronograph but it was super windy so I figured I would work with the 68 and 70gr loads in the Rolling Block and see how the 500gr and myself could handle the wind gusts. I have been compressing the powder with the bullet after putting in a milk carton wad and newspaper wad on top of the powder and setting the seating depth to match the OAL I got from running a bullet into the case and then and additional .003 inch to clear the lands.

Well after about 10 loads of 68gr load I suddenly had a bullet that would not let the rolling block close? I smacked it with the palm of my hand, but no luck so I popped it out with a brass tool I had made just in case something like this happened. I looked at the bullet nose and there were some land marks on it at the beginning of the ogive. I shot several more and then a couple more that would not feed in all the way?

I switched to the 70gr loads and got 2 fired and then the next 6 would not let the rolling block close. Hummmm, now I was worried a bit so I tried some 64gr that were left from my last test and they ALL fed in fine and the rolling block closed easily.

So I got home and broke out the calipers and the OAL was exact on all the bullets thgat would not feed in. I tried one that went in about half way and then used a piece of hardwood to close the rolling block fully and then to open it back up. The bullet pulled from the case so I used my muzzle loader rod to pop the bullet out into a towel and whoa, it had land groves over the full length of the ogive! So I measured the diameter of the nose where it is flat, before the curve starts and it was 0.453! I measured the other fail to feeds and they measured the same. I measured one that had not been loaded and the same measurement was 0.448 so I am surmising that I "compressed" the bullet while compressing the powder and it was worse due to the increased force on the bullet as the powder load went up as witnessed by no problems with the light loads?

Has anyone else seen this happen and what was your fix? I did modify an expander die as I have several sets of 45-70 dies thanks to Mike in CO and will use that to compress the powder and wads and then put in the bullet and seat it with lighter force.

On a bright note I let a young boy (12) and his sister (14) shoot a couple rounds with their dad's okay and they are sold on black powder! Both want their dad to trade in their 22s for a rolling block, maybe a Christmas idea!

[EOD3]

I'm pretty sure one of the more experienced coal burners will be along soon to tell you NEVER to use the bullet to compress the powder column.

[littlejack]

Oldracer:
You have fixed the problem. Just use a compression die to compress the powder.
As EOD3 said, "Never use the boolit to compress the powder"
Jack

[NickSS]

Yep yu were compressing the bullet along with the powder. I compress the powder with the bullet only for loads that have very little compression. Once I get to more compression I use a compression die. Every rifle is a little different with what it likes to shoot. Some like more some less compression. Once I find what a rifle likes I use the same load until forced to change due to a change in components. The difference in velocity with black powder between say 60 gr and 70 gr of powder is really not that great so find what your rifle likes and stick to it. I have six 45-70s that I shoot black powder in from three different makers and they all use a different load for optimum accuracy.

[oldracer]

Ahhhh, as I suspected. I guess that press does put a lot of pressure on the powder and I was surprised to see the lead swell by that much. I pulled some of the fat bullets this morning and used the newly made powder compressing tool and after seating new bullets, they fit in the gun just fine! Thanks for the info and help.

[mustanggt]

I have experienced the same thing only mine came from spring back of the compressed powder column. I will say that I was compressing 80grs. in a 45/70 case. If that is done they need to be shot in a timely manner as there will be considerable spring back. I also experience this with 75grs. as well but of course it took longer to spring back. 75grs is what my rifle likes so part of my routine is to check it before I go to the range and recompress if necessary.

[Tom-ADC]

Not an expert but had the same problem until I started using a case expander and a powder compression die. But only with the longer heavier bullets. The 405 gr aren't a problem.

[EOD3]

I'm blind in one eye and can't read with the other one so this may be repetitive... A heavily compressed load "may" need to have a good crimp to keep the boolet from sneaking out of the case.

[oldracer]

I have been using a crimp but I am redoing some of the loads that had the bullets squished and since I compressed the powder again with my newly made expander/compressor die I will make the crimp very light. I plan to mic each load at the range to see if there has been any change and I now have a Lee hand press setup with a spare set of matching dies so I can fix any issues at the range. I'll report back in a week or so and let everyone know how things went.

I was also thinking of letting several compressed loads sit for a few days before I stuck in the bullet to see if there is any movement? Presently the temps have dropped a little in the San Diego area and are pretty stable so I don't know how they might be affected?

[Freightman]

Yep! it isn't just the BP loads it will happen with WC872 or WC860 also and the range session will be short. (ask me how I know) Boolits make bad compressors.

[home in oz]

Who would have thought the bullet would have compressed?

[Doc Highwall]

You can get a powder compression die from these people.
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,3330.html

[SharpsShooter]

Who would have thought the bullet would have compressed?

The soft alloys used in BPCR's (20:1 - 40:1) will distort easily if used to compress a powder column. You will bump up the noses or bend the boolit and they will not chamber.

When I compress the powder, I leave the powder under compression in the press for several seconds. This seems to allow the column to set and i haven't had any loaded rounds grow in a long time.

SS

[oldracer]

I did some rounds yesterday and let them sit over night and checked the compression and there was no change so I seated the bullets with just enough crimp so they would not fall out. I too let the ram sit for a few seconds and that seemed to help.

I made the compression die from an expander and shaved off the end leaving just enough of a slight radius at the edge so the case mouth would not want to catch and that worked very well. I used fire formed cases and did not resize them at all and the bullets went in fully with just a slight bit of resistance at the end. It is supposed to rain this weekend so I might have to wait a bit to see how accuracy is affected?! Us CA wimps don't go out if it is raining or the temp drops below 50 degrees!

[Yellowhouse]

Careful! A friend of mine couldn't chamber a round and hit it hard enough it tripped the hammer. It was a Lone Star and the triggers weren't quite right (set triggers) . Scairt the hell out of him but he had it pointed down range. he is now known as Slamfire!

[Bad Ass Wallace]

A powder compression plug can be made from a piece of industrial nylon as shown in this pic (top RH side). One end turned down to fit the seating die while the other to be approx .004 smaller then the inside case. I made a range of calibres and lenghts to suit each mould and the required seating depth so that there is little force required to seat the boolit.

[RMulhern]

Duhhhhh......does it REALLY make sense to DEFORM the LEAD CAST BULLET by using it to compress the powder? If the answer is yes....you don't need to be in this game!

[montana_charlie]

...say, Rick...haven't seen you for awhile...how are you coming with that chamber you reamed the step out of...?...

[RMulhern]

...say, Rick...haven't seen you for awhile...how are you coming with that chamber you reamed the step out of...?...

MC

Chamber in the Meacham rifle is A #1! Kirk Bryan is 'fixing' the one in the LRE for me! Haven't heard back from that just yet! Kirk told me it would be just fine after using the reamer on it he ordered!

Been hunting in Missouri and baby sitting my grandchildren! This time of year....I don't do much with BPCR!!

HAPPY THANKSGIVING to you and family!

[montana_charlie]

This time of year....I don't do much with BPCR!!

Me either. It's minus 12 out there right now...