Ac 50/50

[NSP64]

I switched to air cooled 50/50 mix (wheel weights/pure with a touch of tin) because I bought a Devastator mold in 44.
Went to the range today. OK accuracy,lead everywhere (12 rounds between 1200-1350 fps).
This same load in WDWW is accurate and fast with NO leading. Is there something I'm doing wrong? The only thing I changed was the alloy.
I switched because I wanted some expansion for deer hunting.

Load was Fed Lp primer, 20-22 gr 296.

[RobS]

I switched to air cooled 50/50 mix wheel weights/pure with a touch of lead because I bought a Devastator mold in 44.
Went to the range today. OK accuracy,lead everywhere (12 rounds between 1200-1350 fps).
This same load in WDWW is accurate and fast with NO leading. Is there something I'm doing wrong? The only thing I changed was the alloy.
I switched because I wanted some expansion for deer hunting.

"with a touch of lead" I'm assuming a touch of tin. Anyway your mix of 50/50 will run you around 6 or 7ish BHN I'm guessing and without a proper expander (.001 under the bullet diameter) to enlarge the case prior to seating, I'm betting the boolit is being swagged down by the case. Even at that your mix is qustionable for the pressures you're asking from it. If you did manage to get the case expanded enough I don't think there would be enough case neck tension to keep the bullets from jumping as I'm sure you are using slow pistol powders for the velocities you're pushing.

If you give us a bit more info about your loads that would help us too. A lot of assuming in my post as I don't have all the details, but I think I covered things.

[Three44s]

I would try using WW alloy as a starting point, you get no appreciable leading then alloy cautiously with some pure lead but I'd think that running that fast with 50/50 (WW/pure) would be tough to not lead.

Another thing to try would be to factor in liquid alox secondary to your regular lube and size to maximize your lubrication.

Also, I have had good results with 2400 and the RCBS 250K and reasonably reduced charges so you could back off the speed some ...... and see if you get a break from the leading.

My lead break in consists of cleaning with USP or JB bore paste (works to fine polish the internals, both bore and chambers) and finnish with CorrosionX ..... for my purposes, it works like seasoning a cast iron fry pan.

Three 44s

[45 2.1]

The alloy works fine..........let it cure out for a couple of weeks. Any WW alloy will be very soft for the first few days and do just what you experienced.

[NSP64]

45 2.1 Thanks for the info. I was wondeering if that was the case. My wdww could be shot that fast within a couple of days of casting without any problems.

RobS, Thanks I hadnt factored in the softer alloy swagging down.

3-44s, I will have to try that.

[Ole]

What about using something like 10-12/1 PB/SN for a mix? Sure it takes more tin, but unless you're hunting with a Gatling gun the cost of the tin in your bullet is a pretty small consideration.

I can't remember what alloy Elmer Kieth used to use, but he had pretty good results with HP bullets and hunting.

[BABore]

Just tweak your WW% til you come out at 10-11 bhn. Cheaper. My local sorted WW's will make up a 9-10 bhn alloy mixed at 50/50 with Pb. All comes down to the WW makeup in your region. When I WD this alloy I usually hit 20-22 bhn after a couple weeks. I only add tin if I must. Most times it's unnecessary.

[geargnasher]

I switched to air cooled 50/50 mix (wheel weights/pure with a touch of tin) because I bought a Devastator mold in 44.
Went to the range today. OK accuracy,lead everywhere (12 rounds between 1200-1350 fps).
This same load in WDWW is accurate and fast with NO leading. Is there something I'm doing wrong? The only thing I changed was the alloy.
I switched because I wanted some expansion for deer hunting.

Load was Fed Lp primer, 20-22 gr 296.

Am I the only one that gets the issue?

Water-quenched wheel weights don't lead. That's 22 bhn after a week.

Air-cooled 50/50 leads like crazy. That's probably 8bhn at best after a month.

1200+ fps.

See the problem?

For good expansion at those velocities with good weight retention, water-quench the 50/50 in ice water, and DO have some tin in there, no more than 2% total because you don't want ever have more tin present than antimony, and you've cut your alloy to around 2% antimony as it is. Toughness comes in part from the Sb/Sn intermetallic, and if there isn't enough tin present the alloy will be somewhat more brittle and less "tough". This alloy should be in the upper teens on the hardness scale after a week.

Gear

[MtGun44]

Straight ACWW in plain base boolits like LBT and Keith styles does not lead at max .44 mag or
.357 mag velocities in any of my revolvers. This includes Lee's LBT style 158 BB mold.

I have used moderate amounts of 8 BHN mixed WW Pb (not some exact mix, just "whatever"
that tested about 8-9 BHN on my LBT tester) with no difference in several of the guns, not all,
but since I find pure Pb harder to get than WWt alloy, I just use straight WW and find
no need whatsoever for GCs or water dropping.

Bill

[fecmech]

I've had the same results as MtGun44. No problems with acww leading in the .357 or .44 mag in the 1200-1350 fps range and decent accuracy. Accuracy is a little better with a 50/50 WW/lino mix in the .357. ACWW's average about 3.5" groups @ 50 yds while the 50/50 mix will average 2.5" at that distance, the .44 doesn't care, it shoots as well with either. Also in my .357, water dropped ww's are no better than the ac version, don't know why they just are.

[44man]

I switched to air cooled 50/50 mix (wheel weights/pure with a touch of tin) because I bought a Devastator mold in 44.
Went to the range today. OK accuracy,lead everywhere (12 rounds between 1200-1350 fps).
This same load in WDWW is accurate and fast with NO leading. Is there something I'm doing wrong? The only thing I changed was the alloy.
I switched because I wanted some expansion for deer hunting.

Load was Fed Lp primer, 20-22 gr 296.

The boolit surface is not tough enough and they are skidding the rifling.
You need no expansion at all with the .44 for deer anyway, I use WD WW's. Only need a good meplat at the perfect velocity of the .44.

[BABore]

Am I the only one that gets the issue?

Water-quenched wheel weights don't lead. That's 22 bhn after a week.

Air-cooled 50/50 leads like crazy. That's probably 8bhn at best after a month.

1200+ fps.

See the problem?

For good expansion at those velocities with good weight retention, water-quench the 50/50 in ice water, and DO have some tin in there, no more than 2% total because you don't want ever have more tin present than antimony, and you've cut your alloy to around 2% antimony as it is. Toughness comes in part from the Sb/Sn intermetallic, and if there isn't enough tin present the alloy will be somewhat more brittle and less "tough". This alloy should be in the upper teens on the hardness scale after a week.

Gear

Only as far as blanket statements go.

Whether you can shoot AC'd or WD'd 50/50 depends entirely on the gun and sometimes on the load. I use 50/50 almost exclusively in both revolvers and rifles. Especially for HV loads. No matter what the boolit design is , or the velocity I'm reaching for, I always try 50/50 both air cooled and water dropped. My 41 SBH Hunter prefers WD boolits at 20-22 bhn in all applications. It's a rare load that will shoot with AC boolits. My 44 Mag SBH Hunter is just the opposite. My go-to mag load is the 429421 HP at 10 bhn over 24.5 grs of WW 296. My 480 SRH doesn't care a wit. I can load up AC & WD boolit with the same max charge of 296, mix them in the cylinder, and shoot groups with them. No matter what the alloy, your ill served to go just one way and say this is how its supposed to be. Compare both hard and soft boolits side-by-side during a load workup and let the gun tell you what is so. If you change powders, do it all over again as sometimes it can change things drastically.

[Bass Ackward]

Yep, the man that has time to play with hardness for different designs is not only "potentially" rewarded with results, but more valuable than that, he receives education.

He learns his firearm which is the greatest advantage of all. From that he learns to learn his other guns as well. He steps through a door. And that knowledge can lead him in other directions as well once that occurs. Limits change for you. Theories fall by the wayside.

This expands the world with cast beyond a cheap, simple replacement for jacketed. And it begins a journey. Problem is that it's almost like you learn to speak another language that others will dismiss.

That's their problem.

[BABore]

Ut Ooh! Bass has went either Yota or Ghandi on us.

Can't say I disagree though.

[white eagle]

That is pretty intense

[RobS]

ehhh, it's not that intense............just people speaking out loud. Its once again soft boolits vs hard boolits and beyond. I've done them both and some firearms like it one way and others just simply don't. The real truth to anything is to document what you find so it can be duplicated later if need be. Wright it all down from the BHN reading, the alloy mix (to the best of your ability), diameter of bullets, how long your bullets aged, what temp you casted at, reloading dies used, powder charge dropped, seating depth, expander used, etc. etc.

Is it all necessary to make a gun go bang..................absolutely not.....................it will however allow your gun to go bang with the added bonus of having the projectile move along in it’s most accurate and intended means as seen fit by the fellow pulling the trigger.

[geargnasher]

Well, BA and Bass, what do you think that my point was? NSP64's gun just spoke to him, and I was attempting to translate. It said "With 20-22 grains of 296 and Fed primers I will shoot fine with one alloy, but you change it to something drastically softer I don't happen to like it, and will reflect such with a lead-streaked bore. Now if you don't like cleaning lead out, please go fix it." My guns have told me this before, I listen, experiment, listen some more, and sooner or later they'll grin real big and start working. That is usually accompanied by a light coming on in my head.

BTW, I wasn't making a general statement about 22 bhn always not leading and 8 bhn always leading, I WAS REITERATING WHAT THE OP SAID HAPPENED IN HIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE.

Gear

[NSP64]

I listened. Cast some WD50/50. we will see if SHE likes it. If not I have WDWW waiting in the wings.

Has to be a SHE, its so hard to please.

[geargnasher]

I listened. Cast some WD50/50. we will see if SHE likes it. If not I have WDWW waiting in the wings.

Has to be a SHE, its so hard to please.

Yes, but don't you wish the other "Shes" were that easy to understand?

Gear

[whisler]

Maybe not pertinent here, but wouldn't 50/50 ww/pure drop a smaller boolit than WDWW? Could that also enter into the situation or would the size difference be too slight to be of any importance? Just trying to learn from anothers experience!