6x45 upper

[Lloyd Smale]

anyone know of someone making a complete upper reasonably (cheap) priced. I don't need a 1/2moa gun. I curious too how some of you guys would stack one up against a 300bo for deer hunting (jacketed)

[Preacher Jim]

the 6.5 Grendel is a better round than both of them in my testing

[Tackleberry41]

I looked into these various wildcats based on the 223. Your not gaining anything, heavier bullet but going slower due to powder capacity. So ends up about the same as a 223. Not something I could buy ammo for, semi auto so chasing brass. Barrels hard to find etc. The 22 nosler looks interesting, like I need another set of dies or more brass to buy. Some of the big bore stuff I might look into, when my current mountain of gun projects is a bit smaller.

[Moleman-]

I've had at least one 6x45 since the early 90's. That said I've only ever used them on groundhogs and coyotes. I kept the last one I have as a possible gun for my kids to use in WI or MO, but after the DNR allowed straight walled cartridges in the southern limited zone here in MI we've switched to straight walled cases for them and have been more than happy. You do gain a bit of velocity for weight but you also then lose BC so it's a win-lose. Still would be fine for at least 120yds with good placement. Farthest coyote I've got with it was over 250yds.

Brass is as easy as running any 223/5.56 case through a 6x45 sizer. I generally used nickle brass so it was easy to tell them apart at a glance from 223.

[Lloyd Smale]

ya but in big game hunting its just about across the board that a bigger diameter heavier bullet even if moving slower is better medicine that a light fast bullet on BIG game. Even though I haven't tried it it would be tough to convince me the 6x45 wouldn't outperform a 223 on deer. I'm not going to sit here and try to convince anyone that a 223 wont kill a deer. Ive killed a couple myself with it. As I have with the beo but its kind of been there done that thing and want to try something different. I thought a couple years ago I had the ideal set up in a 762x39 bushmaster I bought but it was hands down the most unreliable semi auto gun of any kind I ever owned. I don't think it got through but maybe one or two mags without a jam or missfeed even after I tried all the tricks the internet experts spout. Bottom line is that round belongs in an ak not an AR. Ive also done the 308 ar10 thing. One deer season of hauling that big pig around was enough for me. Id look real close at something like the 25wssm or the 24wssm but uppers aren't cheap and brass is hard to find and doesn't last long which would make it strickly a deer hunting gun. You see part of the delema is it is an AR and there fun to shoot and id want to shoot it ALOT.

I looked into these various wildcats based on the 223. Your not gaining anything, heavier bullet but going slower due to powder capacity. So ends up about the same as a 223. Not something I could buy ammo for, semi auto so chasing brass. Barrels hard to find etc. The 22 nosler looks interesting, like I need another set of dies or more brass to buy. Some of the big bore stuff I might look into, when my current mountain of gun projects is a bit smaller.

[Texas by God]

Model 1 Sales may have it. My nephew has a Mini Mauser 6x45 and it kills deer and pigs dead. He uses 80 gr bulk psp and limits his shots to 150 yards or so.
On paper the Grendel seems to be the best AR cartridge but a .250 Savage puts it in the shade. The platform limits the performance.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[jonp]

http://www.jtmenterprises.info/

Considering the price you might be better served finding a barrel and building your own. I was thinking of building one myself as the draw is using the same lower, magazine, bolt etc as a .556 with the plentiful brass to resize instead of something like a 6.8spc requiring all new stuff

[nekshot]

all I know is my son was 12 and had a 243 with 85gr barnes tsx leaving the muzzle at 2800 fps and he did a broadside shot on a big heavy 10 pointer(158 3/4 bc) at 248 yards. I watched the deer hunch up at the shot and take off. Went maybe 70 yards and piled up. Butchering revealed the bullet entered at the shoulder blade and took out the lungs, then hit a rib and left out the deer in a 1 1/2 inch hole in hide. Kinda slow but the kids loved shooting the gun with those loads. We had other deer taken with barnes at 3/4 throttle and they did the job every time. His was in a hayfield along the wooded edge so nothing but air between him and the deer..

[ulav8r]

I looked into these various wildcats based on the 223. Your not gaining anything, heavier bullet but going slower due to powder capacity. So ends up about the same as a 223. Not something I could buy ammo for, semi auto so chasing brass. Barrels hard to find etc. The 22 nosler looks interesting, like I need another set of dies or more brass to buy. Some of the big bore stuff I might look into, when my current mountain of gun projects is a bit smaller.

Basic physics explanation is that a larger caliber on the same case will be slower but will have more energy. The balancing act is to find the largest diameter that has suitable bullets for the velocity range of the small case. That will be the hardest part, as you get into the larger calibers most available bullets will be either to strong or will be designed as varmint bullets. Then again, a 7mm or 30 caliber with a suitable cast bullet might be a good solution.

Of course Loyd wants a 6mm and probably needs to stay with jacketed bullets to have reliability in an AR.

[KCcactus]

Are you set on the 6x45? I bought one of these for my son to use for N. Texas deer and pigs, but he ended up not having time to hunt last year.
https://www.hardenedarms.com/ecProdu...dy%20HD%20Quad

They show out of stock now, but they've had them at that price consistently since I bought mine last summer. I've been using a Stag 6.8 with the 20" barrel. It does a nice job on pigs and deer with 115 gr Federal Fusion. The hardened arms is plenty accurate for hunting. I just haven't used it on anything other than paper yet.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive given that thought too. Problem is finding brass and the limited bullets that work in it. My buddy has one and has killed a few things with it and likes it but with a 6x45 a guy can at least get brass forever and get it cheap. Another thing is like the 6x45 I find none in pistol length sizes so have to wonder why?

Are you set on the 6x45? I bought one of these for my son to use for N. Texas deer and pigs, but he ended up not having time to hunt last year.
https://www.hardenedarms.com/ecProdu...dy%20HD%20Quad

They show out of stock now, but they've had them at that price consistently since I bought mine last summer. I've been using a Stag 6.8 with the 20" barrel. It does a nice job on pigs and deer with 115 gr Federal Fusion. The hardened arms is plenty accurate for hunting. I just haven't used it on anything other than paper yet.

[HangFireW8]

Basic physics explanation is that a larger caliber on the same case will be slower but will have more energy.

Bigger/slower will have more momentum... less energy.

[KCcactus]

There are some on the 6.8 forum using pistol length 6.8 barrels. Suppressed SBRs seem to be popular for pig hunting. AR15 performance website says he will starting selling 10.5" and 14.7" barrels later this year. I stand hunt and like a longer barrel for less noise. The price on the hardened arms 16" was too good to pass up.

If you are not in a hurry, you can find 6.8 ammo for $10 - $15 per box. I'm hunting with 115 gr Federal Fusion that I bought for $14.50 + shipping from Bud's and practice with 115 Federal fmj from Palmetto that was the same price with free shipping. Palmetto sometimes has really good deals, but they sell out fast. They've had 90 gr gold dots for $10 a couple of times, but they are gone before I get there. Starting from scratch, I decided it made more sense to start with factory ammo and reload later. Good hunting bullets in 6.8 are not cheap. The fusion ammo price is usually fairly reasonable and it works well on pigs and deer. I wish they would sell the fusion bullets as components, but maybe some day.

[ulav8r]

Bigger bullet diameter, just like a hydraulic cylinder, develops more energy than a smaller one at the same pressure.

[dverna]

ya but in big game hunting its just about across the board that a bigger diameter heavier bullet even if moving slower is better medicine that a light fast bullet on BIG game. Even though I haven't tried it it would be tough to convince me the 6x45 wouldn't outperform a 223 on deer. I'm not going to sit here and try to convince anyone that a 223 wont kill a deer. Ive killed a couple myself with it. As I have with the beo but its kind of been there done that thing and want to try something different. I thought a couple years ago I had the ideal set up in a 762x39 bushmaster I bought but it was hands down the most unreliable semi auto gun of any kind I ever owned. I don't think it got through but maybe one or two mags without a jam or missfeed even after I tried all the tricks the internet experts spout. Bottom line is that round belongs in an ak not an AR. Ive also done the 308 ar10 thing. One deer season of hauling that big pig around was enough for me. Id look real close at something like the 25wssm or the 24wssm but uppers aren't cheap and brass is hard to find and doesn't last long which would make it strickly a deer hunting gun. You see part of the delema is it is an AR and there fun to shoot and id want to shoot it ALOT.

If the 7.62x39 was near ideal, isn’t the .300 BO close enough?

[HangFireW8]

Bigger bullet diameter, just like a hydraulic cylinder, develops more energy than a smaller one at the same pressure.

Peak pressure is only part of the equation. Sustained pressure determines performance. Gas Volume matters more in longer barrels, that is, rifles. The same gas volume expands more rapidly in a wider cylinder. That results in lower Muzzle pressure (and hence, velocity).

Energy goes up by the square of the velocity. Lower velocity, dramatically lower energy.

Besides muzzle energy, shorter/wider bullets lose velocity (and energy) faster. This is codified by in their assigned ballistic coefficient.

You can't argue against physics.

Some of the higher energy common loads. 6x45 has trouble getting near 3,000 fps (safely) due to the expansion ratio discussed above. Since energy is primary velocity driven, for any high energy 6x45 load, you can find a higher energy .233 load.

.223: 69 (4.48 g) BTHP 2,950 ft/s (900 m/s) 1,333 ft⋅lbf (1,807 J)
6x45: 90 gr (6 g) SP 2,540 ft/s (770 m/s) 1,300 ft⋅lbf (1,800 J)

[BigMagShooter]

get a 25-223, 100gr bullets at 2700... what's not to like.

but seriously the 6x45 will do just dandy, look at 85gr to 90 gr bullets and they will shine, where to get one? sorry don't know, I just get a barrel and swap it on one of my current ar's.

[dk17hmr]

6x45 is the best 223 based wildcat there is. Shoot an 80-85 gr bullet at 2900fps and go kill stuff, look at black hole weapons for a barrel. I have had several 6x45s, as well as a bunch of other 223 based wildcats. 25-223 is a great round also but having to stick to AR mag length is annoying, mine is a bolt action and I can seat much longer getting better prefomrmance out of heavier bullets.

I have an 11.3” 6.8 spc barreled upper for my SBR that I shoot suppressed, I’m planning on hunting with it this year. If you want better super sonic performance over the 300blk in a short barrel look at that round. I have used the round in various rifles and barrel lengths on coyotes, antelope, white tail, and mule deer with great results.

[ulav8r]

Examples of same case-bigger bore+more energy: 243 Win, 260 Rem, 7mm/08, 308 Win, 358 Win
: 25-06, 270 Win, 30-06, 35 Whelen

Careful selection of various handloads can change the rankings, just as the correct selection of bullet can influence performance on game.

[Texas by God]

Examples of same case-bigger bore+more energy: 243 Win, 260 Rem, 7mm/08, 308 Win, 358 Win
: 25-06, 270 Win, 30-06, 35 Whelen

Careful selection of various handloads can change the rankings, just as the correct selection of bullet can influence performance on game.

Very well put.
To compare the 6x45mm to the 5.56/.223 you should use the same weight bullets. The 80 gr 6mm will go faster than the 80 gr 5.56 at the same pressure.