Bullet Hardness - Need a concensus!

[Roundnoser]

Apologies in advance if this has been previously discussed, but I'm having trouble determining the general hardness of my boolits. Many references give many different anwers, so I don't know what the general concensus is.

I'm casting 9mm, 125 grain bullets with straight, clip-on WWs. I'm pouring at approx. 690 - 700 degrees, and cold quenching them with a belief that the BHN will be around 18. (I am not using a hardness tester...just relying on references).

Most of the literature reads that air cooled WWs average between 9 - 11 BHN. But, can I get a concensus from the group about cold quenching? I have heard and read everthing from 15 - 22+ BHN! Thats quite a disparity!

FYI...I have been using the bullets for my own use, and have sold some to others. I'm launching them at approx. 1,100 FPS with good accuracy and no lead fouling in the barrel.

Thanks!

[fredj338]

It's going to depend on the actual composition of your ww. For me, ac ww go between 12-13BHN. Water quenched, 16-18BHN. It's going to vary a bit. Personnaly, I have no issue w/ ac ww to 1200fps/

[Dale53]

Roundnoser;
The only way you are going to get a definitive answer, is the do a hardness check on YOUR bullets. Otherwise, it is just a guess (and your guess is as good as anyone's). There are too many variations possible. As an example, the temperature of the bullets, themselves, as they hit the water can vary all over the place. It is governed by mould temp, metal temp, and how fast you get them in the water. Further, the EXACT make-up of the particular alloy at that point in time. Different batches of WW's can have considerable differences in alloy content. That can have SERIOUS differences in final hardness. The bullets need to sit about two weeks before attaining maximum hardness (change will continue but at a much decreased rate after two weeks).

First consideration, is that your bullets seem to be working well for you. So, they are hard enough (or soft enough) for your purposes.

Just a thought or two...

Dale53

[knifemaker]

If you are water dropping straight wheel weight, you are probably around 17 BHN. That is the common hardness I have been getting on WW for the past few months when casting for two rifle caliber bullets.

[Roundnoser]

Thanks gents! I used to buy my bullets from Missouri Bullet Co. Their 9mm's were 18 BHN and worked great out of my pistol, so I'm just trying to stay with it (or close to it).
I guess if I really want to be sure, I should get a hardness tester. Has the hardness tester topic already been thoroughly discussed? If so, anyone know which thread? Any ideas on the best for the money / or DO NOT BUY suggestions ?(LBT, Lee, SAECO / Redding, etc). Keep in mind, I am not an engineer, machinist, etc., so simple is better!

[cbrick]

I'm launching them at approx. 1,100 FPS with good accuracy and no lead fouling in the barrel.

Thanks!

I'd say your alloy composition and BHN are just right, good accuracy and no leading . . . just right.

As for BHN testers you can have as much or more variation in them as with the alloy. What matters is that the tester you get is consistent for you with your notes and your loads.

Here's a study of BHN testers. It can give the grey matter something to chew on.

http://www.lasc.us/Shay-BHN-Tester-Experiment.htm

I agree with Fred in post #2, that's my conclusions as well except my 308 and 30-30 love AC WW to 1900 fps and above.

Rick

[Dale53]

I have had an LBT tester for many years. It is repeatable and reads directly in BHN. If I had it to do over, I would buy it again.

My first hardness tester was the Saeco. I didn't like it, it requires conversion using tables and I found it inconsistent. I got rid of it and got the LBT.

FWIW
Dale53

[cbrick]

I have had an LBT tester for many years. It is repeatable and reads directly in BHN. If I had it to do over, I would buy it again.

My first hardness tester was the Saeco. I didn't like it, it requires conversion using tables and I found it inconsistent. I got rid of it and got the LBT. FWIW Dale53

Didos, my experience exactly except I did do it over again. During a move a few years ago the movers managed to smash flat a box with some of my reloading stuff in it. Right on top of that box wrapped in a towel was my LBT tester, also smashed flat. I bought another LBT.

I also gave the boot to the SAECO tester, a pain in the hieny, inconsistent and only good up to a certain BHN, after that with HT alloys it was useless anyway.

Rick

[Roundnoser]

Thanks again! Casters in my neck of the woods agree...LBT works well. I think they sell for 100 bucks last time I looked.

[lwknight]

Give the boolits 2 or 3 weeks to harden up after casting.
They will harden more but very slowly and not that much more after a few weeks.
AC and quenched both harden at least somewhat.

[runfiverun]

your water dropped alloy will vary it's final bhn depending on how hot the boolit is when it hits the water.
the water temp will make a bit of difference too.
keep things consistent and give them a couple of weeks to fully harden.