Cutting The Rims Off The .40 s&w Cases

[Jailer]

What press are you using?

[Rick459]

What press are you using?

RCBS RockChucker II. will be purchasing a C&H Champion press shortly.
Rick

[dragonrider]

Great idea Rick, I tried it and so far like the results although I haven't shot any yet.
This is what I did.
Useing a 7/16" 5C collet equiped with a stop I trimmed off the rims. I then readjusted the stop and trimmed the length to .705"


Then I put the case and a cast boolit into my scale pan and then added enough lead shot to get to 240 grains.


Then I inserted the shot into the cas first and then the cast boolit and heated it until the lead melted and the case annealed.



Then into the swage die.


After swaging there is lead exposed above the casemouth that is uneven so I smooth it with a file to the casemouth, this results in a bullit that is 237 grains and looks ok to me.
I need to make up a few more and load them up and head off the the range. It is smoewhat labor intensive so I hope the shoot well.

PS. I am swaging 44's

[Rick459]

Darn Dragonrider... them look store bought... good job..
Rick

[sargenv]

Seems like too much work for mass production.. but for a few here and there they will likely work fine.. any excuse to use power tools

[Rick459]

Dragonrider,
thanks for the tip on using the shot to to bump up the weight of the core to get more of a consistant weight on each bullet. used that method and have swaged my best ones yet. now just need a tip on how to get the aneal marks off of the cases. what method do most here use to shine the finished product?
Rick

[dragonrider]

Unless you are selling them, I don't see any point in making them shine. Your bullets are good looking as they are.

[ReloaderFred]

Rick,

After you anneal the brass, you can drop them in a solution of Citric Acid and hot water for about half an hour or so. That will remove the stains from the annealing process. Then if you want them to shine, run in the tumbler for about an hour.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Jailer]

Rick,

After you anneal the brass, you can drop them in a solution of Citric Acid and hot water for about half an hour or so. That will remove the stains from the annealing process. Then if you want them to shine, run in the tumbler for about an hour.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Yup, same thing I do. Lemi Shine and dish soap in the kichten sink followed by an hour in the tumbler with corn cob media. They look like new brass when they are done.

[Rick459]

so here are 50 of the 100 swaged bullets that i am going to load up today. i think they came out ok. so i'm going to start casting for my .338/06 and while waiting for my .338 mandrel for my M- die i decided to make a flaring tool using an old Lee expander die i had laying around. this expander that i made will only work in my Co-Ax press as the pictures show you why. also i found that i can use the C&H 101 dies to make hollow points from my RCBS 225grn. mold life is good again.
Rick

[danr]

Dragonrider,
thanks for the tip on using the shot to to bump up the weight of the core to get more of a consistant weight on each bullet. used that method and have swaged my best ones yet. now just need a tip on how to get the aneal marks off of the cases. what method do most here use to shine the finished product?
Rick

rick, i noticed annealing marks went away when i used "natural Gas" instead of propane for heating and annealing my brass.

i have a natural gass stove at my place, so i put a steel rack ontop of the burners, and cranked them up to high, and tossed a bunch of brass onto the rack.. as each one turned bright yellow hot, i removed them from the rack and allowed them to cool slowly. afterwards they had NO annealing disscoloration at all.. compared to using a propane torch that leaves many black disscolored marks on the brass.

i think it has to do with the propane and what is in it that is causing the black marks.. the brass i annealed on natural gass was not cleaned in any way, right off the range.. they where a little dull, and no longer shinny, but still no black marks..

hope this helps.

thanks,
DAn

[MakeMineA10mm]

Finally got some pics taken so I could update my progress on trimming rims. First off, I've only done some tests on empty cases and a couple finished bullets. I've heard people here mention trimming the rims off pre-annealing vs. post annealing. Well, obviously, when I did the finished bullets, they were post-anneal. This may (or may not) explain why the blade did not track correctly through the material. The other possibility is that the aluminum oxide blade I'm using flexed at the contact point, which is the angle leading from the case body down into the extractor rim. This definitely put a slight flex in the blade, and I think it's the bigger factor. I've seen more guys are using metal blades with fine-tooth designs, and BT is sharpening his blades. I'll have to play with that later. For now, I've found that the bases of the bullets are angled if I don't turn the bullet in my holding jig 180-degrees and trim a tiny bit off the other side. (You'll see in the pics.)


Here you see the bases of five bullets. They are (L to R): Sierra 300gr JSP, my 267gr swaged JHP (w/ rim still on), my 237gr swaged JHP (w/ rim trimmed) (the 267gr w/ rim trimmed off), my 220gr swaged JHP (rim trimmed off the 250gr JHP which has the lead recessed inside the jacket), and a Sierra 240gr JHP.

You can see in the photo above that I trimmed the base of the bullets in two directions in order to get them flat. In the future, when I trim the rim off, I think I'll do it after I've seated the core, but before I've formed the bullet in the one-step die. It's kind-of hard to see, but the cutting process puts a little curl of metal off to the side where the blade goes through, and with cutting in two directions, the bullet bases are not perfectly flat. Running them through the one-step die after trimming should solve both of these issues.


Here are same five bullets (in same order) lined up with their bases even, showing the length of each bullet. Note how the 267gr bullet (w/ rim still on) is almost the same length as the 300gr Sierra. Also note how that same bullet with the rim trimmed off (ending up at 237grs) is almost identical in length to the Sierra 240gr.

I put the calipers on the 240gr Sierra and 237gr swaged w/ rim trimmed off. Got the following lengths:
240gr Sierra: 0.744" long
237gr BT JHP: 0.714" long

Now, if I were to add three grains of lead, and talk to Brian about reshaping the nose and depth of the HP, I bet we could make something essentially identical.

As it is, with proper placement of the cannelure (which as you can see by the picture, I'm still struggling with... ) the seating depth will be almost identical or even a little less of the bullet will protrude into the powder space.

This is very interesting for me in terms of making maximum effort loads. For much of my jacketed shooting (the Ruger 44 Carbine), I'm shooting at the range, but if I take it hunting, or if a buddy wants some ammo to take a deer with, I'll want to maximize my power and hence velocity. Where this leaves me is that I think in my second batch of swaged bullets, I'm going to trim about 50 rims off, and set those up to get as close to 245grs as possible. This should leave a little lead lip protruding beyond the mouth of the jacket. These will be loaded warm/hot for hunting. The remainder, I'll just leave the rims on and load those for range-ammo for the Ruger. They'll weigh out about 265grs, and I'll use a starting load of slow powder, which should cycle the action fine and keep pressures in check.

[a.squibload]

Just a thought, for a tubular magazine the wider HP might be a plus,
no primer contact at all.

[MakeMineA10mm]

That's true, but we also have to get the round to transition from the magazine to the chamber, and the wider the mouth, the harder that is. My Marlin 1894SS is a slick-feeding rifle and won't be any problem, but my Winchester 94 is NOT very slick. Also, the Ruger I've only played with using factory jacketed bullets, so I'm not sure how forgiving (if at all) that one will be with the feed-cycle and a wide-mouth bullet like these.

Best as I can measure, the meplat on Brian's die is about .345" whereas the meplat on the Sierra 240gr JHC is about .250". I was thinking of something with a meplat of about .310". This is still plenty big enough to encourage expansion (more so than most factory bullets), as well as being big enough to not engage the primer of the cartridge in front of it. Yet, it will be small enough (hopefully) to feed better. I'm just guessing (maybe Brian could share some feed-back with us) that this would also be big-enough to work well with the ejector in the die.

I would also change the rounded profile Brian uses to a truncated-cone style. I like the RN profile he sent better than the truncated-cone ogive that Sierra uses; however, I've noted a tendency by auto-loaders to like that TC ogive-shape better. (Look at Hornady's 124gr FMJ-TC in 9mm [a.k.a. "the Air Force bullet"] and factory drawings for the ammo for the Automag, and you'll see they are TC ogive designs...) I know Brian has an Automag, so maybe he'd benefit from trying the TC shape out?

Also, I wouldn't change the height in the die where the ogive starts and ends. Those are about perfect, right where they're at.

Of course, I'd like Brian to work on this after the first of the year, because I want to see that notching die first!!