Lube test

[Bullshop]

I hope this is OK that I coppied this from the lube forum and brought it here where others may appreciate it.
#1 chuebner
Boolit Master


Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Pompano Beach, Fl
Posts: 253


BP Lube Test
This weekend I performed a lube test with some very pleasant results. The load is my standard Lyman 457125 "beagled" to .463 as cast over 62gr. GOEX 2F, WW cases and Wolf LR primers. This bullet has four substantial lube grooves which carry a good amount of lube. The rifle is my M1888 Springfield which slugs at .450 X .460 and shoots sub 3" groups at 100yd with this load. I pan lubed 10 each of the Lyman bullet with Bullshops NASA lube, SPG, Emmert's and White Label. Normal procedure has been to take a shot and then blow tube 3 slow steady breaths to keep fouling soft. This experiment was to see if I could take a string of shots with no blow tubing or wiping between shots and have the lube itself keep the fouling in check.

Long story short, the SPG, Emmert's and White Label lubed bullets failed miserably. Groups opened up after 5 shots and there was a hard, crunchy fouling deposit about 3-4 in. in from the muzzle on each of these lubes. The pleasant surprise was with the Bullshop NASA lube. Accuracy stayed the same for all ten shots and I was surprised to find a damp patch pushed through the bore with ease, no resistance and no crunchy deposits.

Bullshop NASA Lube WOW!!!

I'm not saying the other lubes are no good but if I can eliminate the blow tubing or wiping between shots... well guess what I'm going to do.


Good job Bullshop.

Charlie

[Springfield]

I love the stuff in my BP cowboy guns. Sure wish I could figure out what he uses for scent in it though. I smell it and I KNOW I have smelled it before, just on the tip of my tongue kinda thing, but I just can't place it.

[Bullshop]

Awhile back someone sent me a link to a cowboy site where a fella tested several lubes in BP revolver. I dont remember the name of the place but remember that he had about the same results with NASA in that application.
We worked on the NASA formula after attending the Quiggley shoot and seeing how many folks were having serious lube issues when it was 106 degrees in the sun on the firing line.
Our first lube line for BP was called #2 lube to distinguish it from our #1 lube, Speed Green. The NASA lube came about as an improved version of the #2 lube. We were specifically trying to develop a lube that was better for high temp and low humidity conditions.
Turns out that the NASA lube also works very well for cold weather smokeless loads too.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Must be quite humid in FL, a excellent test would be in 80'-90's temps and RH of 6-12% common place here in Wyoming and MT and NM.

I have personally tested over a dozen lubes over the years, and all work if the RH is over 32%. Once it slips below 30% the list of what works gets much shorter.

KW
The Lunger

[Bullshop]

But Kenny lets be fair. Under the conditions of the test NASA won hands down.
You always seem to be knocking my product and I have to wonder if you have ever even used them.
So why dont you do the same test under your normal conditions? Make it as tough as you want just test all lubes the same way. Use the same lubes and add any others you like. If then you find my lubes to be inferior to any others knock away.
What I got from the test was that there are better commercially available lubes than the accepted norm SPG and Emmett's. There may be other secret formula that work even better but those are not available to everyone.
I am guessing you will respond that you now shoot PP so you have no need to test lubes. If that is the case then why do you seem to give negative comment on my lubes whenever they are mentioned in these BP forums on this site and BP forums on other sites?

[Don McDowell]

Bullshop I offered to take a couple of sticks of lube you offered up for trial, but you never responded.
But the offer still stands. The wife has a new rifle, we've got a new to us bullet mould coming for it. You want to send a stick or two of lube, we'll put em thru the paces and give a fair and honest evaluation.
Otherwise you may want to start watching the shoot announcements and sending a couple 3 sticks to the various match directors as prizes. That's a pretty decent way of getting your stuff spread about also.

[waksupi]

I would like to see a test of this, also. The High Plains certainly are the toughest environment for any BP lube to work in. I know many lubes people are happy with in moister climates, don't work for squat here. Bore Butter in muzzle loaders is a prime example. Test on, please!

[Bullshop]

Now dont get me wrong. I never said NASA was perfect and a cure for all lube ills.
I am saying in my and others experiance under equal conditions it has shown to be at worst equal to or better than any lubes that are commercially available to all shooters or formula that are available to all shooters.
Don
PM me your address and I will get those right off to you.
Sorry if I missed you the last time.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Bullshop,

I got cross threaded with the Claims of National Champion shooters at Raton using your lube. when it was just not so. Having shot Nationals every year since 1996 I know what and Who win every year.

I still use GG bullets in Silhouette, I still stand by my statement that if RH is over 32% Any lube seems to work.

However this past weekend RH was in the 9 to 12% at the Ranch and Would of made an excellent testing ground for Lube.

My address is

Kenny Wasserburger
817 Glacier Drive
Gillette, WY 82718

[Don McDowell]

11836 county line Road
Ft. Laramie. Wy
82212.
Looking forward to giving it a good run. Thanks.

[Bullshop]

Kenny
I think you may be twisting my words a wee bit. I think what I said is it has showed up in the winners circle at some of the national events like MT long range and some silhouette championships at Raton and maybe others like Quiggley.
In my view there are at least three winners in every class and prises are generally given to those first three places. I dont recall ever saying that it was with the first place winner. Although in the case of Steve Whitt at Quiggley it should have been. I felt that Steve got cheated out of first and second place having only one less hit than the first place shooter but doing it with 4 fewer shots.
You see Steve broke a firing pin in his Shiloh Sharps at the off hand event and ran down to thier booth for a new one. By the time he got back he had been out of the rotation for 4 shots and they did not let him make them up. I felt for a heat that close for top honors they should have given him the chance. So he had to accept third even though he was tied for second. As you may know ties are decided by the most hits at the off hand target and that was the one that he broke his firing pin on.
Anyway you may also know the Klendenins, Butch and Linda from ND. That same year Linda was the top female shooter at Raton for one of the national events. I assume she also was using our lube because Butch loads all her ammo and just shortly before that shoot he bought a large quantity from me. He told me they had been using SPG but she was getting a little leading at the muzzle. He said that using our lube not only prevented the leading she was getting but it cleaned it out of her barrel. I also seem to remember the same year she won the MT long range championship at Forsyth
So there were no false claims, though possibly misleading using the word national.
Like I said in a previous post not a cure all but better than most under equal conditions.
No matter how good any lube is there will always be a time some time some where that conditions are so poor that it will come up short on its own without help. But when one consistently shows itself to work a bit better compared to others under equal conditions wouldn't it be wise to go with that one over those others?
Now would you be testing our lube by itself to see at what point in humidity it may fail or would you be comparing it to the other top lubes available to all shooters?
I am only interested in a comparison because as I said I am not touting our lube as a cure all but as possibly a better choice.
If you will be comparing I will supply our lube. What would you prefer cake or stick?

[chuebner]

Springfield,

I know what you mean about the scent. It reminds me of some real strong black tea I had about a year and a half ago. Can't remember the name or where I got it and I miss brewing it.

Kenny,

Today was a dry day down here, currently 80 degrees with only 60% humidity.

I'm actually lubing up another batch of BPCR bullets with NASA lube right now. This time they are the Rapine 460-500. Similar to the Lyman 457125 but with only three lube grooves. This bullet also shoots quite well for me but the Lyman seems to shoot just a tad better.

Charlie

[Don McDowell]

Bullshop I'll take cake please, and send an invoice with it. If I like it I'll gladly pay, and order another.
Test will be up against Harlans Sagebrush Alox.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Bullshop,

I would test it against Whitelighting Lube. However Linda Clenden has never been the top female shooter at Raton in any National Event. She has been top shooter at other gong events but never a NRA Nationals, they also shoot Smokless at the gong shoots, not BP I know I have known them for years they attended my first match I held in 96 at our Family Ranch.

KW
The Lunger

Cheubner, at that RH 60% any lube on earth would work in my opinion, and that is not Dry where I come from.

KW
The Lunger

[Bullshop]

I cant remember where I got that info about Linda but seems like it came from the BPC News.
What is whitelighting? Where is it available? You prefer cake or stick?

"Cheubner, at that RH 60% any lube on earth would work in my opinion, and that is not Dry where I come from."

But Kenny he said in his test that the other lubes well received by most shooters failed. In that case your statment cant be correct.

[chuebner]

Bullshop,

Cheubner, at that RH 60% any lube on earth would work in my opinion, and that is not Dry where I come from.

KW
The Lunger

In your opinion any lube should work but my informal testing proved otherwise. Commercial SPG and White Label along with homemade Emmert's failed. I plan to test further with my Sharps and Rolling Block but I anticipate the results to be the same. If the commercial lubes fail in our humidity here I would imagine they truly suck in the arid conditions where you are located.

Charlie

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I Can honestly say that SPG or DGL or Black Magic or any other lube I used never failed, in Humidity over 32%, all one has to do is blow enough, 5-8 Deep breaths is what I use in all conditions. 3 Breaths in a long trapdoor barrel would never work for me.

KW
The Lunger

PS.

Let me clarify some thing, I do not care much for being called a liar, Linda Clendenin has NEVER WON A NATIONAL NRA EVENT or High Female in Silhouette or Long Range (she never has shot it) or Mid-Range She has never shot that either. She has only tried her hand at NRA Silhouette at Raton. I have the results for every year that they have ever attended and and prove it.

Lastly I take exception to your statement that I can't be correct, Fouling control no mater the Lube is easy, when Humidity is over 32% I have Kept very careful records for nearly 15 years on this very thing all it requires is that you stay hydrated and blow Correctly. I saw my own daughter and many other shooters, foul out in 80 deg temps and 35% humidty due to incorrect blowing. Huffing on the blow tube and correct blowing are two totally different things.

I dont like being called a Liar, when I have 10's of thousands of rounds down range with a noritious fouling cartridge such as the 45-110. This is a lube test of the extreme when using this cartridge in long range competition. I have tried so many different lubes that it is not even funny, btw all lubes fail when temps exceed 90' and the humidity drops below 18%. ALL LUBES Fail as you can not keep the fouling hydrated to stay soft, the moisture flashes off and the barrel temps are to high.

At this stage of the game Wipping comes into play and its what the winners use period. This is not based on what I heard or might of read this comes from actual experience at actual matches.

White Lighting lube was concocted by Dan Theodore, contains no beewax, any lube that contains bees Wax will fail when RH drops below 20%. Try 106 deg temp and RH of 6% been there done it several times.

Since You are calling me a liar, which I do take exception too, I withdraw my offer to test this lube of yours, since My opinion-findings would be of no value to you, as you feel I am not a honest person.

Rest assured though that your continued claims of this being used by National Champions at NRA Raton will be corrected at every turn on the Web.

KW

[felix]

Kenny, you have observed correctly about the humidity being a "lube" factor. Casting results are much improved during and within a condensing atmosphere. Try it sometime when the dew is falling. ... felix

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Felix,

I have heard of this, Shiloh has also mentioned that when casting their Steel how Humidity affects the Quality and speed of Casting Steel even.

back when I first started shooting BPCR in 1994 I had good days at the range with my 110 then bad days. I started tracking Humidity, and low and behold, I found a corralation.

KW
The Lunger

[Doc Highwall]

felix, would rain count as a condensing atmosphere.