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Thread: Good beginner coach gun for CAS and fun

  1. #1
    Boolit Master wellfedirishman's Avatar
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    Good beginner coach gun for CAS and fun

    I know this is a casting section, but it seems to be the most appropriate place.

    Can anyone recommend a good, inexpensive coach gun for CAS and just general fun? I was told that the cheap Norinco coach guns were too soft (improperly hardened steel) and had reliability problems.

    I cast and load Lee 12 ga slugs with good success, I would probably cast and load roundball loads or buckshot too for the coach gun. It would be fun to use black powder loads with it too.

    Thanks!

    Edit: I found much of the info I was looking for here: (Great site)
    http://www.cascity.com/getstarted6.htm
    Last edited by wellfedirishman; 10-03-2010 at 11:51 AM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    I bought a Stoeger for CAS and have been real happy with it. Mine is hammerless with double trigger's but they make all kinds of model's. My friend Cajun Shooter can tell you a lot more about CAS shotguns. He shoot's a lot of match's and has a real good idea on how they hold up. BTW I'm not sure on the current price's but I think I paid $325 for mine a couple year's ago in used very good condition. FB
    "Somebody's gotta go back and get a sh*tload of dimes"
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master




    home in oz's Avatar
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    I bought a Stoeger also.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master wellfedirishman's Avatar
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    Thanks Guys. For CAS do you use Cylinder choke (i.e., will a cut down un-choked barrel work) or do you need tighter chokes? Do you mostly shoot buckshot or birdshot?

    Thanks for the info.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    I have the Norinco. It has only malfunctioned once, I fired both barrels at the same time just for fun and the forend popped off and the thing opened itself. Might not have happened if I'd a had a better hold of it, but I'm not going to try that again anyway. They make a decent copy of a 1897 Winchester too, but I can't say how the quality is on those. I know you said coach gun, but you might think about a good old '97, they're out there. I got one a long time ago, a takedown model with two barrels, long and short. They don't have a trigger disconnector so will really go to town.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    I've never checked what the chokes are on mine but you don't need tight choke's for CAS. The target's are fairly close but the shotgun targets usaully have to be knocked down. I've shot buckshot testing patterns but shoot mainly birdshot. FB
    "Somebody's gotta go back and get a sh*tload of dimes"
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master in Heavens Range

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    I don't have a choke in any of my CAS/SASS shotguns all straight barrels. I have an 1887, 1897 and a TTN copy of the Colt hammered Coach Gun. SASS only allows Bird Shot.

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  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    What's a TTN? IIRC the Norinco coach gun is based on an old Remington design, but with 10 new safeties, which I'd remove if I knew how. I regret selling my 80's era CVA dbl 12 ga. muzzleloader. That thing was fun, and light as a feather, splinter forend.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master in Heavens Range

    Muddy Creek Sam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dualsport View Post
    What's a TTN? IIRC the Norinco coach gun is based on an old Remington design, but with 10 new safeties, which I'd remove if I knew how. I regret selling my 80's era CVA dbl 12 ga. muzzleloader. That thing was fun, and light as a feather, splinter forend.

    See here http://arms2armor.com/store/product616.html

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  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    That's a nice looking gun, way nicer than my Model 99. I guess mine is a copy of a Colt too, not a Remington like I thought. The upside is I won't have to worry about scratching it. It does seem to be plenty stout, just don't like the extra safeties.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Four Fingers of Death's Avatar
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    I have an IAC which is a cheap copy of the Colt hammer gun I'm told. Nice gun, but I had it 'prepped' for competition and the guy who is the main cowboy gunsmith here and comes highly recommended must have been off his oats when he worked on my guns. The left Bbl doesn't fire reliably. After he finished I had the gun 'un-smithed' as I call it. New springs, sears re-cut and re-timed. Still not 100% I think I will have to file down the hammer stop to allow it to fall a bit more solidly.

    I bought my wife a Stoeger hammerless coach gun. It has adjustable chokes! Amazing gun! Hit where I pointed it and shucked every shell clean! I am wrapped in it. We might be sharing this one.

    I'd say you'd be hard pressed to go past the Stoeger. I was on the loading bench and looked at the shotguns. All five were Stoegers! I asked the 3guys and the one gal how their shotguns were. They all replied that they were bog stock and had never, ever missed a beat!

    If you don't already own a hunting shotgun, you can get the set with two barrels, one coach gun length and one longer for hunting for not much more money.

    They have a very good recoil pad as well which was soft, but never caught on my shirt as some are prone to. I love this little gun!
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  12. #12
    Boolit Master wellfedirishman's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for all the info.

    I found a used 12 ga coach (originally a longer barreled Stevens 311 model) locally that has been cut down to 19" with cylinder choke and bead sight. It is inexpensive and will do the trick as a starter CAS gun.

    She's not pretty right now, but will clean up with some linseed oil on the stock.

    Last edited by wellfedirishman; 10-17-2010 at 09:56 PM.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Four Fingers of Death's Avatar
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    That will get you going! Good luck with it!
    "I'll help you down the trail and proud to!" Rooster Cogburn.

    "Slap some bacon on a biscuit and let's go! We're burnin' daylight! " - Will Anderson (John Wayne) "The Cowboys."

    SASS Life Member No 82047

    http://s89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/

    Psycholigist to Sniper; 'What did you feel when you shot the felon Sargeant?'
    Sniper to Psycholigist; 'Recoil Ma'am.'

  14. #14
    Black Powder 100%
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    Order a leather cover for the butt stock. This will hold the stock in position and not let it slip when mounted on your shoulder. The cylinder choke will work for most guns. What you must remember is that SXS don't have enough steel for adding screw in chokes and they don't work anyway in a SXS. When using a SXS you have to remember that they are built on the idea of convergence. This means that both bbls will come to point of aim at 40 yds and dispense most all of it's shot into a 30inch circle at that range.That is the theory but it never works that way. Most all shotgun targets are 10 yds or a clay bird at 20 yds. At very close range KD's if you aim at the target you will miss it left or right. These targets should be in line with the bbl you chose to shoot. If target is 5-7 yds point at it with the left bbl and pull the back trigger. You must pattern your shotgun with the ammo you choose and count the number of shot it has before shooting. Although you have no choke let me throw this in. Just because a choke says it is modified does not mean it will fire those groups with your gun or ammo. If anyone tells you you need such and such a choke to shoot this distance they are wrong. A modified choke could produce full choke, modified, or improved cyl performance. Only a pattern test will tell. The shotgun you have should work for you. If you become very active in SASS you will need more than one. I shoot the IAC 1887 lever and the 1878 Colt SXS that was TTN but is now EMF. I had some bbl problems and they fixed it right away. It is one of the best as it comes with the easy open, light cocking with hammers close, and large front bead.
    Shooter of the "HOLY BLACK" SASS 81802 AKA FAIRSHAKE; NRA ; BOLD; WARTHOG;Deadwood Marshal;Bayou Bounty Hunter; So That his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    I made a mistake buying one of those chinese hammer guns from Dunhams a few years ago I looked at three and bought the only one that the barrels pointed in the same place. 200 rounds later it has loosened up and the safety has always reset from recoil of all but the lightest loads. I should of waited until I found a used Stevens 311 which is what it replaced (was stolen) .
    If you ever see a sTevens 311 with 18 1/2 browned barrels , a nickeled receiver and shortened stock with slip on recoil pad check for driver lic# under pad S-415......

  16. #16
    Boolit Master JIMinPHX's Avatar
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    I've messed with one of the Bikals. I wasn't too impressed. The two barrels shot to different points of aim. The finish came off the wood in the rain & stained my hunting overalls pretty bad. The action latch lever was so stiff that you just about need a crow bar to get it open. Based on that one bad experience, I stay away from the Russian shotguns.
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  17. #17
    hey folks,newbie on board.
    I'm trying to get back into CAS,recently bought a couple'a Remmy 1858 replicas,planning to use APP,or something similar.
    Has anyone reloaded shotgun shells with BP substitutes on a machine?I have a MEC sizemasterand am trying to figure out which bar and bushing to use,Cap'n Baylor recomends a load using 50 grains of APP,and 1 1/8 oz.shot.I'm very inexperienced at this and would appreciate any help

  18. #18
    Boolit Master eljefe's Avatar
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    Hi Boartooth,

    I load on a Mec Grabber. I deprime, resize, then prime the hull. Then, I pull the shell out and load with a lee dipper. Then wad and shot, etc. This requires
    having no powder bottle, just shot on top of the charge bar.

    I do the above because most of my loading is done with black powder, though
    I have also done it with triple 7. I have used APP for cartridge handgun. It is the consistency of cat litter, and may not meter well through a Mec charge bar.
    It is worth a try, though.

  19. #19
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    Boartooth: buy the adjustable charging bar and set things where you want, so much easier. I only use real BP but load on my MEC 600's all the time, work fine. Wellfedirishman, you coming to shoot with us one of these days? There is a nice new club in Morgan Hill, not to far from you, at the Coyote Valley Sporting Clays club. Second saturday of the month.
    http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Baikal Coach Gun



    ....Baikal S x S with interchangable chokes....working exposed hammers....

    Our local clubs CAS style events have half inch thick steel chickens set up at 20 metres...about 22 yards....and they restrict us to number 7 shot only.....

    ...if you use cylinder choke the knock down power is marginal....half chole or more gives you solid knock down power every time....

    ...the wood is walnut.....


    ...I love it...

    Straight shootin'

    Limey
    .......never mind Quigley's gun....I just wish I had his eyesight!!!!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check