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Thread: gonna buy a lathe

  1. #21
    Boolit Master

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    The Grizzly 4003G wasn't out yet when I bought my Birmingham or yes, I would've bought it.

    The 4003G has four primary features that set it above the 4003 and the Birmingham.

    1- beefier spindle being D1-5 with 6 pins instead of D1-4 with 3 pins.

    2- different/better spindle bearings

    3- tailstock clamping via torque wrench

    4- cabinet stand is much better than the 4003 and Birmingham

    I think those are the only differences. Everything else is the same as the 4003 and my Birmingham 12x36.

    Steve Bedair has one of the 4003G. He's a gun guy. I've had email with him about his Grizzly mill as it's the same as mine except his is 1 phase 5 speed. (I like mine better).

    http://bedair.org/Grizzly12x/GrizzlyG4003G.html

    his mill
    http://bedair.org/Mill/6760mill.html

    Once you hit 13" swing on a lathe the $$$ starts climbing. I could've gotten the 14x40 but didn't see a real point to it. I'd lived 30 years with a 15x60 so I knew what you could and couldn't do with either. With an antique 15x60 there's very little you can't do as long as you can figure out a way to chuck it up or attach it to a face plate. I machined the front hub of a Ford F250 4x4 once. That dude was pretty heavy and big but the 10" Union 3 jaw chuck took it in stride.

    These smaller lathes like the 12x36 are not heavy duty lathes. The Atlas 10x36" that I owned for 25 years was capable of good work. It was a light duty lathe but could do a great deal. The 4003 and Birmingham are "semi-medium" duty lathes. Certainly capable of more grunt work than the Atlas but nothing like the bigger beefier lathes. I've run 18" LeBlond in college and I think that was the biggest I've run. Big lathes are fun.

    Buying used American iron is risky. My Von Wyck was only 75 years old when I bought it in 1979 but it had a lot of wear and tear on it but it cost only $500 in '79. Best money I ever spent, too. But older South Bend and Logan and those are/were great machines. But you might have to spend a great deal of time repairing older machines. There was no place to buy parts for the Von Wyck so either I made it or adapted something or did without. Fortunately in 30 years of use I didn't need anything major.

    You need to research an awful lot if you were going to shop for a used South Bend Heavy 10, for example. I'd prefer a 14" or 18" South Bend. You could machine truck brake drums on a 18" lathe. I did disc rotors on the Von Wyck but it was close.

    For a couple years I also had a Clausing 6300 12x36 lathe in my home shop. My brother bought it and I ended up with it. It was a very accurate lathe. The Birmingham sort of emulates the Clausing. But the Clausing 6300 was a very nice lathe. The earlier 4900 and... there was one other model.. they are also very accurate and capable machines. But to find one that doesn't need some upkeep.... maybe not so easy. A really nice 6300 could run $3,500 still. And they're fairly old lathes now. The 4900 even older.

    this is the Clausing 6300. I had the variable drive setup.
    http://www.lathes.co.uk/clausing/page2.html

    LeBlond Regal. 19". This is the one I used in college. FYI My Von Wyck 1903 was made with a LeBlond patented carriage drive. The co-owner, Roach, was the superintendant at LeBlond at the turn of the 20th century. The Von Wyck was a very good lathe.

    http://www.lathes.co.uk/regal/page5.html

    It wouldn't hurt to spend a lot of time reading the lathes.co.uk website. It is the most awsum machinery website in the world. My old Index mill is featured on this page: http://www.lathes.co.uk/blankbuxton/

    Here's a pretty clean South Bend 10". $1800. I have no doubt it's a very decent lathe. But will a 10" lathe give you the capacity for what you may want in the future?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/South-Bend-Lathe...item2ead78e24b

    Another Heavy 10" South Bend. I wouldn't be afraid to buy this one and plug it in and start turning. You'll learn as you go.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/10-South-Bend-La...item35acc9dcf3

    12x30 Hendley.. pretty good looking. $4100. But a very beefy lathe. I would say this has twice the beef as the 4003G.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/HENDEY-12-X-30-E...item3cac4ffbc7

    LeBlond Regal $1100 start bid. 14X42". I'll say this much: At least it's CLEAN. It's BEEN cleaned. Some are fithy.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/HENDEY-12-X-30-E...item3cac4ffbc7

    14x48 Clausing. Very clean. $4750. You see? American = $$$$$.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/CLAUSING-VARIABL...item19bfdb4d3e

    15x42 LeBlond Regal mfg 1964. This dude is very nice, very clean, very well taken care of. It's also $5950. Is it worth that? Yes, I think so. Of course it's been painted but it was painted nicely, carefully and the ways look very nice. It also has DRO. When you get done looking that $6000 isn't all that much more than a new Chinese 14x40. I rather like this one. Study the carriage and compound surfaces. It's not beat up or abused. That's the kind of thing you look for in a used lathe. Abuse and neglect. This LeBlond is darn nice for just coming across it.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/15-x-42-cc-LEBLO...item1e5e5e66c1

    Here's an old Cincinnati 15x54" for $100 starting bid. A HUNDRED bucks. It's in Paramount, Calif. That's by Compton... Inglewood... places you'd need a gun to visit. I was born in Inglewood.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Cincinnati-lathe...item415336070e

    Another darn clean LeBlond 15" Regal $3500.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/15-LeBlond-Regal...item563f78db51

    And finally... a totally cool Monarch 15". $1800 BUY-IT-NOW and darn nice looking for a lathe that old. This is a flat belt lathe. The headstock is very simple. It looks like a 6 speed back-geared lathe. This is a very capable lathe. Very heavy duty. Much beef. This could be as late as 1940s era World War 2. I'm not up on the dating of these but they are a very well thought of lathe.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/MONARCH-LATHE-15...item45f5798177

    Older used lathes you have to know what can go wrong and how to find parts and fix it. Or you need somebody experienced to shop with you. Finding a use lathe via a machine shop that wants to get rid of one is not a bad way to go as long as you can take somebody with you and spend sometime inspecting it UNDER POWER.

    And this is why lathes like the 4003G sell so good.

    Dutch

  2. #22
    Boolit Bub
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    I don't know your experiance level but I bought a manual (How to run a Lathe) published by Southbend when I got my lathe thirty years ago. It was good reading then and it is good today. Try ebay or amazon to find one. I have worked using a Southbend, Le Blond, and Powermatic. I currently own a 12X36 Craftsman lathe made by Atlas tools. The Atlas has flat ways but it has always produced accurate cuts.
    James

    Good Luck.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master

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    lathe

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    The Grizzly 4003G wasn't out yet when I bought my Birmingham or yes, I would've bought it.

    The 4003G has four primary features that set it above the 4003 and the Birmingham.

    1- beefier spindle being D1-5 with 6 pins instead of D1-4 with 3 pins.

    2- different/better spindle bearings

    3- tailstock clamping via torque wrench

    4- cabinet stand is much better than the 4003 and Birmingham

    I think those are the only differences. Everything else is the same as the 4003 and my Birmingham 12x36.

    Steve Bedair has one of the 4003G. He's a gun guy. I've had email with him about his Grizzly mill as it's the same as mine except his is 1 phase 5 speed. (I like mine better).

    http://bedair.org/Grizzly12x/GrizzlyG4003G.html

    his mill
    http://bedair.org/Mill/6760mill.html

    Once you hit 13" swing on a lathe the $$$ starts climbing. I could've gotten the 14x40 but didn't see a real point to it. I'd lived 30 years with a 15x60 so I knew what you could and couldn't do with either. With an antique 15x60 there's very little you can't do as long as you can figure out a way to chuck it up or attach it to a face plate. I machined the front hub of a Ford F250 4x4 once. That dude was pretty heavy and big but the 10" Union 3 jaw chuck took it in stride.

    These smaller lathes like the 12x36 are not heavy duty lathes. The Atlas 10x36" that I owned for 25 years was capable of good work. It was a light duty lathe but could do a great deal. The 4003 and Birmingham are "semi-medium" duty lathes. Certainly capable of more grunt work than the Atlas but nothing like the bigger beefier lathes. I've run 18" LeBlond in college and I think that was the biggest I've run. Big lathes are fun.

    Buying used American iron is risky. My Von Wyck was only 75 years old when I bought it in 1979 but it had a lot of wear and tear on it but it cost only $500 in '79. Best money I ever spent, too. But older South Bend and Logan and those are/were great machines. But you might have to spend a great deal of time repairing older machines. There was no place to buy parts for the Von Wyck so either I made it or adapted something or did without. Fortunately in 30 years of use I didn't need anything major.

    You need to research an awful lot if you were going to shop for a used South Bend Heavy 10, for example. I'd prefer a 14" or 18" South Bend. You could machine truck brake drums on a 18" lathe. I did disc rotors on the Von Wyck but it was close.

    For a couple years I also had a Clausing 6300 12x36 lathe in my home shop. My brother bought it and I ended up with it. It was a very accurate lathe. The Birmingham sort of emulates the Clausing. But the Clausing 6300 was a very nice lathe. The earlier 4900 and... there was one other model.. they are also very accurate and capable machines. But to find one that doesn't need some upkeep.... maybe not so easy. A really nice 6300 could run $3,500 still. And they're fairly old lathes now. The 4900 even older.

    this is the Clausing 6300. I had the variable drive setup.
    http://www.lathes.co.uk/clausing/page2.html

    LeBlond Regal. 19". This is the one I used in college. FYI My Von Wyck 1903 was made with a LeBlond patented carriage drive. The co-owner, Roach, was the superintendant at LeBlond at the turn of the 20th century. The Von Wyck was a very good lathe.

    http://www.lathes.co.uk/regal/page5.html

    It wouldn't hurt to spend a lot of time reading the lathes.co.uk website. It is the most awsum machinery website in the world. My old Index mill is featured on this page: http://www.lathes.co.uk/blankbuxton/

    Here's a pretty clean South Bend 10". $1800. I have no doubt it's a very decent lathe. But will a 10" lathe give you the capacity for what you may want in the future?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/South-Bend-Lathe...item2ead78e24b

    Another Heavy 10" South Bend. I wouldn't be afraid to buy this one and plug it in and start turning. You'll learn as you go.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/10-South-Bend-La...item35acc9dcf3

    12x30 Hendley.. pretty good looking. $4100. But a very beefy lathe. I would say this has twice the beef as the 4003G.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/HENDEY-12-X-30-E...item3cac4ffbc7

    LeBlond Regal $1100 start bid. 14X42". I'll say this much: At least it's CLEAN. It's BEEN cleaned. Some are fithy.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/HENDEY-12-X-30-E...item3cac4ffbc7

    14x48 Clausing. Very clean. $4750. You see? American = $$$$$.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/CLAUSING-VARIABL...item19bfdb4d3e

    15x42 LeBlond Regal mfg 1964. This dude is very nice, very clean, very well taken care of. It's also $5950. Is it worth that? Yes, I think so. Of course it's been painted but it was painted nicely, carefully and the ways look very nice. It also has DRO. When you get done looking that $6000 isn't all that much more than a new Chinese 14x40. I rather like this one. Study the carriage and compound surfaces. It's not beat up or abused. That's the kind of thing you look for in a used lathe. Abuse and neglect. This LeBlond is darn nice for just coming across it.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/15-x-42-cc-LEBLO...item1e5e5e66c1

    Here's an old Cincinnati 15x54" for $100 starting bid. A HUNDRED bucks. It's in Paramount, Calif. That's by Compton... Inglewood... places you'd need a gun to visit. I was born in Inglewood.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Cincinnati-lathe...item415336070e

    Another darn clean LeBlond 15" Regal $3500.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/15-LeBlond-Regal...item563f78db51

    And finally... a totally cool Monarch 15". $1800 BUY-IT-NOW and darn nice looking for a lathe that old. This is a flat belt lathe. The headstock is very simple. It looks like a 6 speed back-geared lathe. This is a very capable lathe. Very heavy duty. Much beef. This could be as late as 1940s era World War 2. I'm not up on the dating of these but they are a very well thought of lathe.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/MONARCH-LATHE-15...item45f5798177

    Older used lathes you have to know what can go wrong and how to find parts and fix it. Or you need somebody experienced to shop with you. Finding a use lathe via a machine shop that wants to get rid of one is not a bad way to go as long as you can take somebody with you and spend sometime inspecting it UNDER POWER.

    And this is why lathes like the 4003G sell so good.

    Dutch
    thank you Dutch, this is a very impressive post and will take all info into consideration, my biggest problem is not finding a used lathe, its finding one that will ship. 99% of what i find says local pickup only, no shipping. for me two three hundred miles is ok but a 1000 or so miles no way i can do it. but i'll keep looking, you can't find it unless you look for it. i have some friends in the trucking business here hauling oilfield stuff.i think maybe it's time to call in some old favors. thanks guys. skimmerhead
    Cheap things are not good and Good Thing's Are Not Cheap

    the worst part of getting old; is remembering when you were young



  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy
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    A friend in MN just called me. Wants to find a new home for his 14 x 42 Jet gear head with collets, 3 and 4 jaw, steady rest,etc. I don't need another lathe. PM if interested. I have heard that they are a step above Enco, but I don't personally know that. Are they??
    John

  5. #25
    Boolit Master

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    When I bought the Birmingham from Bill's Tool Crib I lived in northern Indiana. Bill's is in Henderson, Nevada (a forlorn place if there ever was one). It cost $300 freight down the dirt road in front of my house in a truck with no liftgate (yes, I paid for lift gate delivery). It took my neighbor's front loader tractor.... in the rain.... and a couple of cargo straps to get it off and in the shop. Overall it wasn't that bad.

    When I bought my used mill from Wisconsin I was living here in northern Calif. It cost $500 to ship it freight. Overall I didn't mind as I knew the fellow I purchased it from and the price was decent.

    If I were you... I'd seriously check out this Jet 14x42 via jmh54738 and do it soon.

    The reason I listed all those used ebay lathes is to give you an idea of what it's like to shop for a used lathe and what you would come up against. I'm not afraid of used lathes but in the end I decided on the new Birmingham. I've not been sorry. I made my own 5C handwheel collet closer and I'll soon be fabricating a ER40 lathe chuck for it. I paid $2,000 for the Birmingham in March 2005.

    Dutch

  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy hickstick_10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh54738 View Post
    A friend in MN just called me. Wants to find a new home for his 14 x 42 Jet gear head with collets, 3 and 4 jaw, steady rest,etc. I don't need another lathe. PM if interested. I have heard that they are a step above Enco, but I don't personally know that. Are they??
    John
    I'l have to respectfully disagree with Dutchman

    If you get a ridiculously good price on the Jet, by all means purchase it, then sell it for profit.

    But considering a Jet a step above an Enco is like considering a kick in the rear end a step up from a kick in the balls. Neather choice ends in a harmonious outcome.


    If you got a good "lathe egg" stowed away, save it for something a little nicer besides a used Jet lathe.

  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy
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    So, the Jet IS better than an Enco as Hickstick stated with such taste and eloquence. I wonder what brand of lathe he spends HIS money on. Not everyone needs a Monarch nor has the money for a high end lathe. As a tool and diemaker, I spent the last five years of my career in a shop that had two Enco lathes, a 14" and a 20" , and an Enco mill (Bridgeport sized) that were used daily in heavy service, with no breakdowns and producing close tolerance work (With DRO). Oh yea, my personal lathes..........18" LeBlonde, 14" Reed-Prentice, 16" Hendey, and a 33" German Weipert (25 HP, 6MT, 52 speeds, elec. brake, elec. clutch, elec. jog, inch, metric, DP, and modular, 3" spindle hole, and taper attachment, auto oiling, two speed tailstock spindle, etc.

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy hickstick_10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh54738 View Post
    So, the Jet IS better than an Enco as Hickstick stated with such taste and eloquence. I wonder what brand of lathe he spends HIS money on. Not everyone needs a Monarch nor has the money for a high end lathe. As a tool and diemaker, I spent the last five years of my career in a shop that had two Enco lathes, a 14" and a 20" , and an Enco mill (Bridgeport sized) that were used daily in heavy service, with no breakdowns and producing close tolerance work (With DRO). Oh yea, my personal lathes..........18" LeBlonde, 14" Reed-Prentice, 16" Hendey, and a 33" German Weipert (25 HP, 6MT, 52 speeds, elec. brake, elec. clutch, elec. jog, inch, metric, DP, and modular, 3" spindle hole, and taper attachment, auto oiling, two speed tailstock spindle, etc.
    If you must know a Myford super 7B (quick change gear box model) is my house lathe.

    I bought it on the factory stand, with 2 chucks, centers, steady rests, 5 gallon pale of tool bits and another pail of morse taper drills for 1000 bucks bout 3 years ago. Price of a new one is well beyond mine and most peoples budget for hobby use. But its a quality machine that I can take with me whenever I move, which was a big factor in choosing my own lathe.

    It was a smoking deal, because I was patient and waited and didn't hop on the first lathe that wizzed by. I to was staring with lust at the jet machinery that was within my budget during the searching phase. But patience always wins out.


    Back when I was machining for a living (Engineering student now) we used mostly 36" x 120" kingstons or Mazaks, I've used nardinis, dean smith and grace, southbends (I actually dont like them that much) and jets. In heavy use, in my experience, Jets or other similar makes do not hold up. How do I know?After they both gave up the ghost at one shop they were converted to other uses. Ones used to bevel pipe for the welders and the others used for tungsten spray welding because the electrics got toast, the machines are non rigid and the apron gears are stripped. In all fairness these Jets were used in much heavier machining than I beleive was intended for them and as I said before, Jet machines or Enco are entirely servicable, but if you can get something better then go for it.

    There are better machines then Jet or Enco for the money, its a fact I dont even understand why this is debatable.

    As a journeyman machinist (its what you call a guy who did his 4 year apprenticeship in Canada) I also know a thing or two about lathes and it is my humble opinion that any shop that uses hobbyist grade machines for industrial work is not much of a shop at all (do you use grizzly surface grinders in your tool and die shop as well? , you should since they're "just as good") (the only place I have EVER seen an Enco used for business was a back country auto/farm repair shop). But that's besides the point, the OP wants a quality machine that he will buy once, he's willing to spend money for something that will work for MACHINING, not just gunsmithing. You know as well as I do that a Enco/grizzly/whatever of an equal size will never hold a candle to say a used leblond or kingston or Colchester or Mori Seki, which is well withing his budget on the used market.

    The man wants the best machine for his 5 grand budget, an Enco is not it, its servicable without a doubt, but not the best for the dollar.

    I understand some may get offended when they perceive there toy to be "insulted" well it wasn't, its merely a fact they're designed for garage tinkerers (hence why they're so cheap)and theres nothing wrong with that. But the OP wants the "best" so to speak, its foolish to point in any direction besides that.

    Perhaps its because I look at a lathe from a machinist standpoint? I dunno. It makes no sense really to keep defending Enco, as used manual machines can be found for dirt cheap. Its also a fact that the name brand grades are usually much more rigid then the enco/grizzly/cheap asian grade, something that matters if you really want to bore deep or hog big cuts.

    No not everyone needs a Monarch for tinkering, it was just one of the several brands I listed. but given a choice between a 5000 dollar Enco and a good condition 5000 dollar Mori Seki or kingston (Im not prejudiced against Asian machines) only a fool would choose an Enco.

    This reminds me of people who defend the **** they buy at Walmart as a "good bargain", its still **** people.

    But I guess we'll agree to disagree then and I do beleive I've said more then my fare share.

    Edited for spelling and to add: I just ran across this thread http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=94914
    and yet people would still say "Go for the Enco".
    Last edited by hickstick_10; 10-05-2010 at 11:45 PM.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master



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    A word on the Enco lathes...

    I bought an Enco 13 x 40 only because I wanted something new that I wouldn't have to rebuild first. It holds good tolerances and is easy to operate. Enco replaced the asian motor with an American one as part of their normal operating procedure.

    Things I didn't like:

    All lever handles would not stay tight.....a little locktite solved that.

    Threading dial is not keyed to the shaft, just held by a socket screw that can come loose. I check it before any threading operations. No big deal and I may modify it in the future.

    The chuck changing procedure is not what I thought. I was under the impression that I could just swap chucks with repeated accuracy. Turns out (and this is a tip from a Jet dealer!) when you remount your 3 jaw, you have to place a piece of 1" bar in the jaws and dial it in while tightening the mounting screws! Not too crazy about that but it gets fast with practice.

    Things I did like:

    Runs quietly, bullseye port to check head stock lube.

    On/off is controlled by a lever on the apron, within reach at all times.

    Emergency "slap button" will stop everything if something goes wrong.

    One gear (mounted outside head stock) made of nylon, acts as a "safety valve", designed to strip if normal forces are exceeded. This is a GOOD thing to have.

    Good customer service. The Chinese 3 jaw had a minor problem and Enco replaced it with a Bison (Polish) chuck after one phone call, no hassle.
    Last edited by 3006guns; 10-06-2010 at 08:58 AM.

  10. #30
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    What's your guys take on belt drive lathes vs. gear drives? All my lathes are belt, one Logan 11x28, and 2 Hardinges- 1 Chucker HC and the other a CHNC.

  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy
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    MY friend bought a lathe from a place called goverment liqudators they sell surplus DOD property he got a south bend ship board lathe think it was from the usnavy .Got it cheap but shipping cost him like 900 bucks to his house

  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have (2) friends that have Birmingham lathes (one is a tool and die maker), both speak very highly of them. One of the local gun shops (3 full time gunsmiths) recently purchased a Grizzly gunsmith lathe. They love it. Let's face it, there may not be any American lathe manufacturers producing machines in the 12"-14" range at this point in time. Some are putting their names on import lathes. Buying a used American made lathe is a gamble. If a lathe has had substantial use it may need extensive repair. Parts may be a problem for older lathes. Purchasing a used lathe from a tech/trade school or a high school machine shop almost always assures that the machine has had some careless abuse in it's life. If purchasing a used machine, look for a high quality machine with lots of accessories that has been lightly used by a home shop hobby machinist. Our local tech school has a half dozen NARDINI lathes. They are a South American import that the instructors are very pleased with. Buy wisely and if taken care of, a good machine will last your lifetime. LOL
    Last edited by Trifocals; 10-08-2010 at 04:42 AM. Reason: wording

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  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    Pat, all of the gear-head lathes that I have looked at have a quick change gear-head....that's belt-driven. Which is a good thing AFAICT. I can also say, switching speeds with the gear-head is much faster than with the belt, and with the belt driving the gear box you still have some "slippage" if you, well, you know, have a little "accident" (I sure that's NEVER happened to any of us before?!).

    lathesmith

  14. #34
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    Oh no I would NEVER have an accident Chris. Specially on my CNC ... ...

    So then are you saying like the Grizzly "Gun Smith" lathes, they are still utilmately driven with a belt off the drive motor?

    I don't think I would know how to act if I got to work on a NEW precision lathe. My Logan has wear issues for sure, but does an amazingly good job working around it's issues.

    The old Hardinges (1955 on my manual, and 1980 on the CNC) have some issues, but they are such an upper caliber machine, they laugh at my Logan. Once I find the magic speed and feed, and tooling, the Hardinge laugh's at it's own age as well. They are just pretty remarkable machines.

    Finding the right tooling for the task on a production level is a challenge. I'm still working on CNC finish and tool longevity. Getting much closer to where I want to be, but still need work in areas.

  15. #35
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    OK I see now.

    I just looked at the parts breakdown on the Grizzly 40003G gunsmith lathe. Belt on the drive motor, with QC gearing in the headstock. That is GOOD.

    That lathe would be awesome with VFD drive making it variable speed as well. I want replace my Logan with something new one of these days.

    If I were a rich man, I would get a Southwest Industries ProtoTrak manual/CNC lathe. Taiwan castings with American components. Tough machines, but approaching $20,000 new.

  16. #36
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Deep South Texas
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    12,820
    I have a small Logan in my shop and am well pleased with it. Lee Jurris builds or used to build 1000 yard bench rest rifles and he had Jet lathes and machine tools in his shop.

    If I were shopping for another lathe I would look long and hard for a good condition Southbend or Logan. I just like old American iron.

    If I wanted an Asian lathe I would buy Jet. It is not that they are better than any other but have great customer support here in the states. I need some info on my Jet drill press and called their customer service number. I got a fellow from Georga with 30 plus years as a machinest to walk me through the issue.

    I have a friend who just bought a new Grizzley "Gunsmith" lathe. I get to run it, so in time I will have an opinion, but it is too early for that.

  17. #37
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    PatMarlin's Avatar
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    Aug 2005
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    Be real interested in your Grizzly report Charles.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
    lathesmith's Avatar
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    Nov 2006
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    Springfield, Missouri
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    Since what little industrial base that this town had dried up about, oh, 30 years ago, choices in the "good used American-made lathe" department are slim to none. If I waited until I got a fabulous deal of a lifetime on something like that, that would actually fit in my garage,I'd still be waiting. And waiting, and waiting...
    So, for those of us in this area, it's new or near-new stuff or pretty much nothing--think Asian...I mean, if you want to do the Ebay thing, good luck with that; personally, I really don't want to spend hundreds getting something shipped only to find out it's a piece of junk. Talk about a **** shoot!
    So, having a HF and a Griz store close at hand, does come in useful at times. Those "Gunsmith" lathes do come with a few more toys, and at least the showroom models seem to have a little higher level of fit and finish. And you are right Pat, belt-drive on a gear head is a VERY good thing, and also, a variable speed makes one of these machines that much better. And you are also right on about tooling, it seems there is always something to fool with, especially when you are talking about carbide!

    lathesmith

  19. #39
    Boolit Master cheese1566's Avatar
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    Dec 2008
    Location
    Black Hills, South Dakota
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    1,786
    I am in the same boat here in western SD. Only recent industries go way back and are sawmills and goldmines. They are few and far between now and the old timer machinists in those shops are long gone in the dirt.

    I found one 400 miles away on craigslist, but after telling the seller I wanted it (and was having a family member come to look at it that day) he decided to sell it out from under me without notice. I could have easily had my brother buy it and store until i could come for it. By the way, it was a Montgomery Ward (Logan) with an extra chuck, stand, and taper attachment for $500. (Now after said and done, I think I smell something fishy...just as well.)

    I do have a nice member here with one that is closer with extras. Many pics have been sent and we are still talking.

    If that falls through, I may just settle for a new Grizzly mini-lathe and go from there.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master Linstrum's Avatar
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    Mar 2005
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    Otero County, New Mexico
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    1,127
    In 2006 I needed a lathe to replace my worn-out late 1940s Sears Atlas 12x36 lathe that I had for almost 50 years, so I checked out the Jet 13x40 belt drive lathe that my father bought new a few years earlier and I decided to get the 20" longer Jet 13x60 belt drive model for doing barrel work. Except for the bed being 20 inches longer, it is the same basic model as my father's lathe including having flame-hardened ways. I paid $4000 for it in 2006. The only major thing I did to it was replace the two horsepower 240-volt single-phase AC motor with a ¾ horsepower shunt-wound 90-volt DC variable speed reversible motor and speed control unit. Running a lathe or milling machine without a variable speed reversible drive is like having a car without a transmission, reverse gear, and gas pedal.

    Jet lathes are NOT Chinese lathes, they are made in Taiwan, and for about the last 40 years Taiwan has had an excellent reputation of turning out lathes and mills just as good as the U.S. lathes and mills from the World War Two through Space Race Era, like South Bend and Bridgeport. Monarchs and jig-bores they are not, but my Jet 13x60 holds 0.0005" (5/10,000-inch) in a full 40-inch long cut between centers on a bar of 1-3/8" diameter type 303S free machining stainless steel. Depending on type of material and how I'm feeling, I can do work to 1/10,000 inch with my lathe, which granted takes special care, technique, and effort to do - especially with having a properly shaped and SHARP cobalt high speed steel or tungsten carbide tool bit, but my particular lathe will do it no problem. Without jumping through hoops I can hold to ± 0.001" all day long no problem. I also cut a lot of threads including metric threads, and with the Jet's threading gearbox, 120 x 127-teeth metric conversion gears, and the selection of switch-gears that come with the lathe, I have been able to match or come close enough to work okay every oddball thread I have come across so far, such as 19 turns per inch thread pitch used for 3/8" British Tapered Pipe Threads, as well as make nipples for Italian replica muzzle loader and cap and ball guns that often have bastard thread pitches to force the owner to purchase parts from the manufacturer. I can also cut the rarely-encountered 27 turns per inch threads used for 1/8" and 1/16" tapered pipe threads.

    It has a quick-change cam-lock chuck mount that I did some simple work with shims so the three jaw chuck doesn't have to be indicated in, it came with a three jaw universal chuck, four jaw chuck, face plate, #2 Morse Taper inside the chuck mount, adapter for #3 to #2 Morse Taper, steady rest, tool follower rest, one carbide tip lathe center, and one soft steel lathe center.

    I don't have any major complaints with my Jet 13x60. I had to re-grind the three-jaw chuck jaws because they were off-center by 0.010”, but after a simple re-grind I did myself it centers-up parts from 0.0” to 0.0015” of true center, depending on the diameter of the part.

    I prefer belt drive lathes for tapping threads because of the torque control they offer by slipping the belt. I haven't had premature belt wear from slipping the belt for tapping because the power requirements are quite small compared to heavy cuts. I had the same belt on my Atlas lathe from 1964 to 2006 and the belt is still in good shape. For heavy cuts I've never had a problem with belt slippage.

    Belt drive lathes have the problem of having to take the headstock apart to replace the drive belt but I have gotten around that by getting linkable V-belts that run just as smooth as solid belts.

    rl858
    Last edited by Linstrum; 10-09-2010 at 08:43 AM.
    ~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+
    There is no such thing as too many tools, especially when it comes to casting and reloading.
    Howard Hughes said: "He who has the tools rules".

    Safe casting and shooting!

    Linstrum, member F.O.B.C. (Fraternal Order of Boolit Casters), Shooters.com alumnus, and original alloutdoors.com survivor.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check