Ruger #3

[Charlie Sometimes]

Got the extension pad today and installed it.
Fit was not as nice as I had hoped (made in the land of Chin) but the principle is correct, as it did make the difference in fit and recoil for me.
I fired two rounds loaded with 15 gr. of Trail Boss under a 550 gr. Lyman 457676 and a good roll crimp, and two rounds of the same load under the JP 45-210 Big Lube boolit, also roll crimped.
Somewhat stiffer recoil than my other loads, and were managably comfortable with the extension pad.

I agree with Bob- the flat top on the #3 stock is an issue. I don't think the drop on the #3 and #1 are any different, just that squarish top ain't condusive to high recoil comfort! The curved butt doesn't help much either.

The barrel on my #3 is 22 inches, and my project replacement barrel is 24. It is standard Ruger profile for a #1-B, IIRC. No iron sights on it.

Looks like I will be changing forearms to a 1-B and the butt stock to a custom length for the #3 but with the #1 round top and recoil pad. I intend to mount a scope, because my eye sight ain't what it used to be either.

The rifle does lend itself to stalking and all day carry- especially with the open sights.

Forgot to slug the bore! Tomorrow, yes, tomorrow..........

[AkMike]

The biggeat problem with both the #1 and #3 is that they build the length for midgets. If the LOP was at 15" then it could easily be cut down to fit almost anyone. It need to be longer for less felt recoil.

[cabezaverde]

I don't know if anything will make the 45/70 nice, with heavy loads, in a #3 because of the amount of drop in the butt stock, and if it was my rifle I'd probably look for a used #1 butt stock.

That does mean a bit of change to the lever shape by a gun smith.

A number 1 buttstock will fit without any metal work required. You may want to however to prevent getting your fingers rapped by the trigger guard.

[Good Cheer]

All kidding aside, I know of a gunsmith that passed out due to previously firing high recoil tests. I think it's like most things in life...it effects you later.
My No.3 began life as a 375Win. Found out it didn't have enough case capacity so had the chambered reemed and turned it into an H&H carbine. Shot sub MOA groups with a T-10. Didn't hurt my shoulder with it but got muscles pulled loose during bench shooting. Now it's reborn with another barrel.
Ah, those halcion days. Low taxes, over paid and more time on my hands than I could fill.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

A number 1 buttstock will fit without any metal work required. You may want to however to prevent getting your fingers rapped by the trigger guard.

Well, Maybe something was changed along the line that I am not aware of, but because of the lever shape on the #3 with it's streight grip style, when #1 wood is installed, the action lever needs to be tweeked a bit to allow for use with the pistol grip of the #1.

Where the #3 has a detent to retain the action lever in the up/closed position as compaired to the release of the #1, there is no changes needed there.

It has been a long time since I saw the change over being done from factory to #1 wood on a #3, so as already said, maybe something changed.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[9.3X62AL]

FWIW, my #1 in 45-70 has .459" throat and grooves, land diameter is .449" and 8-groove right twist at 1-20". Government ballseat, also.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Slugged mine- it' 0.459" bore, with lands at 0.453"

I have a buddy who has several #1's (that's where I got the project barrel).
I'm going to take mine over to his house and test fit the #1stocks to mine and see.

I have read that there is not much real difference between models- might be easier to remove the pistol grip wood from a #1 stock to make a #3 stock rather than bend a lever (blasphemy! ), if all else is the same. I have also read that the earlier production #1's & 3's had better wood fit. Today's wood is left more "proud" around the action. Might be play room for a custom fit that way.

[Charlie Sometimes]

The biggest problem with both the #1 and #3 is that they build the length for midgets. If the LOP was at 15" then it could easily be cut down to fit almost anyone. It need to be longer for less felt recoil.

Thinking about this situation- isn't 13 1/2 the usual LOP for most bolt guns?
Wonder why it feels so different on these?

A straight stock with a 15" LOP would be a wonderful thing for me!

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Hmmmmmmmm??????????

Have never had a length of pull problem with any of the #1 rifle I have owned over the years, and my oldest son has two of my past rifles and has no problems at about 5" taller then I am.

I had the problem with a Marlin, which the addition of a 1" recoil pad solved, but have never even heard of anyone having this issue with the #1.

The Marlin was a .44 in which I was shoot'in my regular .44 load of 310gr LBT ahead of 19gr AA#9.

The problem wasn't the recoil, but the fact my thumb kept smash'in my nose with every shot.

Learn something new every so often, even when your an Ol'Coot.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Charlie Sometimes]

I'm 6' 3", weigh around 330 lb., have a draw length on a bow of 31-32" (long arms).
I can take recoil, but the #3 seems short and stubby despite a 13 1/2 LOP.
The extension pad made a LOT of difference.
I don't think it recoils enough for a scope to cause you damage, but that butt shape don't help, I'm sure.
Maybe if it were flat, the LOP wouldn't be such an issue?

[Boz330]

I tried some 500 grainers at 1800fps this afternoon. Had significant padding under the bob allen pad. Shoulder feels okay......but my back hurts and I have quite the headache.

I would never be the one to say I told you so, but I did. If you compare the Ruger listed loads with the 458 Mag you will see that you can get real close with the Ruger #3, not that I want to. Elephants have never done anything to me and White tails aren't any harder to kill now than in 1873 when the trapdoor and the 45-70 were developed.

Bob

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Boz330,

Sure would agree about the Killing a white tail needs,

However, considering that elk, deer and bear are open during the same time period for at least part of the general hunting season in Idaho, and the fact that this is my first year to hunt with a cast boolit rifle, I am glad for the flattening of that typical, 45/70 rainbow arch, that my added RUGER #1 velocity is helping to provide.

Yes, it has been awhile since I have taken a critter at over 200yds, but I have also hunted for many years with a rifle that needed zero hold over out to a good distance beyond that figure, so this is going to be a big change in both rifle and mental attitude for the Ol'Coot.

So, for those reasons I welcome the chance to maintain my "center of kill zone" hold from very close and on out to a full 200yds, that my #1 and a 355gr cast LBT is providing.

Will the load be white tail worthy? Yep and worthy of every other critter that could even remotely come my way, plus a bunch.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Nrut]

Taking game at long distance, BP velocity...

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/vi...ghlight=africa

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/vi...ighlight=zebra

[redneckdan]

I would never be the one to say I told you so, but I did. If you compare the Ruger listed loads with the 458 Mag you will see that you can get real close with the Ruger #3, not that I want to. Elephants have never done anything to me and White tails aren't any harder to kill now than in 1873 when the trapdoor and the 45-70 were developed.

Bob

I hadn't done any real work up through the range of .45-70 loads ever so I decided to load up 50 rounds ranging from mild to wild. I want to get an idea of what was comfortable for plinking. What would be tolerable for deer hunting. And what loads required extensive padding to be comfortable. 11gr of promo under a 400gr PP was rather pleasant.

[Shooter]

I have read that there is not much real difference between models- might be easier to remove the pistol grip wood from a #1 stock to make a #3 stock rather than bend a lever (blasphemy!

I take it a #1 lever is not a easy fit?

[Boz330]

Boz330,

Sure would agree about the Killing a white tail needs,

However, considering that elk, deer and bear are open during the same time period for at least part of the general hunting season in Idaho, and the fact that this is my first year to hunt with a cast boolit rifle, I am glad for the flattening of that typical, 45/70 rainbow arch, that my added RUGER #1 velocity is helping to provide.

Yes, it has been awhile since I have taken a critter at over 200yds, but I have also hunted for many years with a rifle that needed zero hold over out to a good distance beyond that figure, so this is going to be a big change in both rifle and mental attitude for the Ol'Coot.

So, for those reasons I welcome the chance to maintain my "center of kill zone" hold from very close and on out to a full 200yds, that my #1 and a 355gr cast LBT is providing.

Will the load be white tail worthy? Yep and worthy of every other critter that could even remotely come my way, plus a bunch.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

The buffalo hunters endangered that species with those 1873 type loads. But I hear you. Even with the higher velocities, the trajectory on the 45 slugs could still be an issue with something as narrow as the kill zone on a whitetail. I wish that I had your problem though. We have elk in KY but it is a lottery draw for a permit, I lost this year.

Dan I think that I was using 10 or 12gr of unique, but check that, with a 405gr and it killed a deer. I loaded up some of the Ruger loads from a Lyman manual for the 405 and it was the starting load. I fired the first round and thought surely that wasn't as bad as I thought, so I fired the second one. Then I went back and pulled the remaining 48.

Bob

[redneckdan]

The buffalo hunters endangered that species with those 1873 type loads. But I hear you. Even with the higher velocities, the trajectory on the 45 slugs could still be an issue with something as narrow as the kill zone on a whitetail. I wish that I had your problem though. We have elk in KY but it is a lottery draw for a permit, I lost this year.

Dan I think that I was using 10 or 12gr of unique, but check that, with a 405gr and it killed a deer. I loaded up some of the Ruger loads from a Lyman manual for the 405 and it was the starting load. I fired the first round and thought surely that wasn't as bad as I thought, so I fired the second one. Then I went back and pulled the remaining 48.

Bob

I went all the way up to lymans max loads for the rugers. Granted I was using a kick pad with a pair of leather gloves underneath. Still ended up with a healthy bruise, had a pretty good headache for the rest of the evening and a stiff back for a couple days. I will load up a few more, mark the heads up bright red with nail polish and set them aside in case MTU is ever blessed with a rogue moose like NMU was a couple years back.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

For sure those old buffalo hunters did take some long KILLING shots with rifles at BP velocities.

However, I also suspect that at least for the new kids/shooters on the block, there were also lots of "bad shots" and critters wounded and taking some extra shots to put them down, providing that is, they were not allowed to just run over the hill with the herd and wasted.

So considering it is been awhile since I've spent any time with a muzzle loader and having in fact spent years with rifles offering center of "kill Zone" holds out to 350yds or a tad more, I am happy that I am not needing to rely on old and rusty "Kentucky Windage" skills.

For unlike the BP shooters of old, shooting into a herd of critters, with no limit and no season, I do have a season, a bag limit, and the need/desire to make what is likely to be my one shot per critter, count.

So no question the Ol'timers made some great and long shots with boolits leaving the muzzle at 1200fps or below, but this Ol'Coot is delighted to have a rifle safely able to add a 1000fps to that figure.

This fact is helping ease me into this cast boolit rifle hunting, so Please give the Ol'Coot a break for at least this season.

I am already dealing with the thought that this will be the year that once in a life time bull will show up at 300yds and there I sit with my beautiful #1 - s, 45/70 and a self imposed 200+/-yd limit.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Boz330]

Hitting a 300yd shot is not difficult. The difficult part is knowing it is 300yd and not 250 or 350. If you are good at range estimation no problem or if you use a range finder. Also knowing your gun and what it will do at the different distances, is what puts meat on the table.
I guided elk hunters in NM for 10 years and I was more surprised when a hunter hit an animal than when they missed. Unfortunately the guys we guided weren't as shooting savvy as the guys on this board. I had a guy miss a cake 160yd shot off of cross sticks with a 270 mag. Another hunter shot an antler off of a sleeping elk at 60yd with an inline ML. The elk jumped up trying to figure out what happened and stood long enough for a reload and kill. Thank God for good taxidermists cuz he was a record book animal. The outfitter didn't cut the guy one ounce of slack though, he liked good field pictures of the hunter and game for next years brochure.
The bulk of hunters showed there poor performance at sight check on arrival. We actually had guys run out of ammo trying to show a good zero and the nearest store, more than 50 miles away, was pretty limited on selection. Sorry about the thread drift.
Good luck on your hunt elk is mighty fine eatin.

Bob

[redneckdan]

No worries.....heck thread drift is expected if not encouraged here. That is why I spend most of my time on casted boolits instead of THR...the jack boot thread tangent nazis tend to get annoying......