Pedersoli soule sights?

[Kenny Wasserburger]

John Boy,
thats what I call a casual shooter, you prob do not need upgraded sights but this fella mentioned trying Silhouette and or Long Range.

For Raton alone I took 420 rounds for Silhouette and practice, for Creedmoor 150 rounds for a day of practice and 2 days of Match. For Mid-range I took another 100 rounds for the Match. That is 870 rounds just for the Nationals. Phoenix I took 240 rounds for 4 days of matches and Practice. Alliance was a month later that took 200 rounds plus 60 shots of 22. My match next 150 rounds for practice and the match. Next was Big Timber 2 days of Silhouette 130 or so rounds plus 60 shots of 22. Thats just the month of March and the month of May.

I shoot more rounds in the season in a month than you do all year, the only person your kidding on the Pedersoli sights, being up to snuff is yourself.

The USA 431 has little screws that lock the elevation and have too little windage adjustment this is not worth a hoot or a holler in the middle of a match, had a poor shooter few years back with such sight, we had been shooting at 900 yards with a 10 Wind at 12-15 Mph. He finally got on target with his 3rd record shot, then we had a reversal wind at 3 and now 15 to 18 mph. I told him to come down 3 MOA that took a bit had to unlock with that damm small screw, then I told him to come 24 MOA right, he just looked at me and said ****!!! he was still trying too unlock the elevation for the staff.

I have put on matches for 15 years and see it all and Can give a Honest evaluation on what works and what does not in Matches.

KW
The Lunger

[EDG]

The gent mentioned of in the future of using sights for Sihouette and Long Range, Perhaps EDG missed that in the original posting. EDG must of missed the whole intent of the post, but would enjoy a peeing contest.

As for adjusting only after each yard line statement means you have never shot in a match. Often we have to make quick elevation changes due to condition changes that happen quickly in the short time allowed for record shots in Silhouette, the Cheapoo sights are a pain to make this quick and percise adjustments, shooter fustration is at Max.

That was the intent of my post, It is not much fun when your equipment fails you or does not work well.

KW
The Lunger

I am petty familiar with the die hard adherents of the so called sport engaging in measuring contests.
The big problem with your point of view is most would be shooters will pass on the entire deal if they have to front $400 for sights just to try out a match or two. So what if they are not competitive. They will not be competitive anyway. For most of us it about fun. They cannot get bitten by the bug if they don't get out there the first time because of a $400 sight and a $1500 rifle. If your sport dies it will not be my fault.

[Don McDowell]

The sport ain't much fun if you can't hit a bull in the ass if you were sitting on him , because you got a sight that's not much good... Been there done that. Didn't save a dang thing buying a cheap sight then learning why the extra 100 or so dollars for a good sight may of kept me in the game just a little better.

[EDG]

Nothing happens if you cannot commit.
Committing your way is about a $1900 bill up front plus cost of brass dies and so on.
Why not encourage guys to shoot what they can afford to start? Let them shoot a Buffalo Classic. What could it possibly hurt? Some of this tradition based stuff is carried way beyond a reasonable fantasy. I sure as heck would not bother if I had to show up on horse back.

[Don McDowell]

What good does it do for someone to get started into something , with inferior equipment that may not even let them be competitive enough to have a taste of how much fun it can be?
Not a hell of alot of fun to get 9 or 10 hits out of a possible 80 or 90, but then I wouldn't want to confuse you with actual experience again....
I've seen a number of folks try the game with bc's and similar stuff, and after they found out this isn't shooting the latest greatest gascheck bullet at large targets 75 yds off, never try it again. I've also seen some folks that jumped into it with cheap stuff, found out what they need to at least have a reasonable chance at being competitive and set about the process of getting there.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

EDG,

I see your point really I do, buy the buffalo classic, Hell its made here in the USA at least!, but buy a decent set of sights I would not go below the Parts Unknown as a bottom line. I guess maybe I am wired different, I never buy junk in any endevor I intend on doing, I wanted a Shiloh after handling one, so put in the order started doing research and getting stuff rounded up. Before long I had dies brass and even some powder and bullets all ready for the day my rifle arrived. My first tang sight was a parts unknown, after having to work on it so the thing would fold back correctly then continue to tinker with it to just get it to work sold it for 120 bucks and ordered a MVA Soule, have Never looked back. Fact is I would of been Money ahead if I had just ordered the MVA,

Oh and they have rebuilt that sight twice since 1994. FOR NOTHING!!!

As I mentioned for years I have held matches and have folks show up with this sort of less then good quailty equipment and they spent the money, and never will recoup what was spent in the long run it would of been much cheaper if they had went with better stuff off the bat. Many are so discourged after their poor choice in equipment they dont continue the sport. At least if they had bought good quality sights and such they would not have a total loss on their hands if they bail.

Got a great guy lives right here in Town owns a nice Shiloh, could not hit a barn with his loads handed some of my 45-70 ammo to him he was hitting steel with boring regularity at 200 and 300 yards.

Man was he Fired up to start loading like me, stopped by the house, saw what it took to produce good BP handloads. NEVER SAW HIM AT THE RANGE AGAIN or at our Local Matches. Saw him at the kids school ( he was a 8th grade counsler) he informed me that it was way to much work to load BP.

If you dont have any drive or ambition, this is not the sport to get into. This conversation is starting to remind me of a guy I know at work telling me how he cant afford to shoot BPCR, but would like too, he smokes 2.5 to 3 packs of Cigs a day. I told him that I wont ever feel too sorry for him all has to do is quit smoking, and have his rifle and sights are paid for in about 5-6 months, as he burns up 350 to 450 a month smoking, so that Pitty party stuff woe I cant afford this, your spouting, that dog dont hunt with me

KW
The Lunger

[Don McDowell]

Nothing happens if you cannot commit.
Committing your way is about a $1900 bill up front plus cost of brass dies and so on.
Why not encourage guys to shoot what they can afford to start? Let them shoot a Buffalo Classic. What could it possibly hurt? Some of this tradition based stuff is carried way beyond a reasonable fantasy. I sure as heck would not bother if I had to show up on horse back.

One thing that you "can't afford" types always gloss right past is the cost of the shooting itself. I'm going to say it's a reasonable expectation that if someone can't come up with 2K$ to get started with the equipment, they're also going to have a devil of a time coming up with the money to feed the thing. When you're shooting cartridges that use 1 lb of lead for every 15 or so rounds, and a pound of powder for every 100 rounds, it's not cheap. Just to shoot at Alliance this past sunday my wife and I needed 42 rounds each just for score. It's also pretty good advice to take at least an equal or greater number of rounds for practice and sight settings. When my boys meet me for the Quigley I'm generally carrying somehwere around 5-600 rounds of match quality ammo, just to get the 3 of us thru the practice days and the match.
Then of course there's the entry fee , travel,food and lodging.....
Shooting bpcr competitively isn't cheap.

[Gellot Wilde]

One thing that you "can't afford" types always gloss right past is the cost of the shooting itself. I'm going to say it's a reasonable expectation that if someone can't come up with 2K$ to get started with the equipment, they're also going to have a devil of a time coming up with the money to feed the thing. When you're shooting cartridges that use 1 lb of lead for every 15 or so rounds, and a pound of powder for every 100 rounds, it's not cheap. Just to shoot at Alliance this past sunday my wife and I needed 42 rounds each just for score. It's also pretty good advice to take at least an equal or greater number of rounds for practice and sight settings. When my boys meet me for the Quigley I'm generally carrying somehwere around 5-600 rounds of match quality ammo, just to get the 3 of us thru the practice days and the match.
Then of course there's the entry fee , travel,food and lodging.....
Shooting bpcr competitively isn't cheap.

+1

It certainly isn't a cheap sport...and that's a fact. It's also very time consuming and does gobble down a good chunk of cash & time just in feeding a BPCR just there's no getting away from that.

Had a similar experience this year as Kenny writes about. A good friend of mine decided he'd like to start shooting BPCR. I did my upmost to explain what was needed and how much time was going to be involved in reloading and casting etc.

As we're in Europe getting a USA built rifle was out of the question for the time being so we'd narrowed it down and decided that a Pedersoli 1874 Sharps would be a good choice in 45-70 (easily available brass) etc. etc. etc. plus if it didn't work out with BP he could always go smokeless. We mainly shoot short range so 300M max and it's always off the sling in the prone position.

Imagine my surprise (and disappointment) when he turned up with a Pedersoli roller in 45-90 with the No.1 type heavy barrel...basically something more suited to cross-sticks than a sling.

I think he's shot it twice in the last year since getting it...his initial enthusiasm being simply replaced by 'it's too time consuming'!

Alot of what's been said in this thread is solid experienced based advice. I think that sometimes new guys listen then ignore it thinking that it can't be as time consuming as the experienced guys say it is. Same with the sights...especially the tang sight...Pedersoli sights are ok to a point...but in the end if you take to BPCR and become heavily involved in competition you will change them. My personal experince with them has only been bad and I'm convinced it's better to just bite the bullet and get a USA built sight from the word go...you'll save money in the long run.

[StrawHat]

While I am no longer a competitior, I have shot competition and did well at my discipline (which was not BPCR.)

One thing I always told folks who inquired about gear (whether for shooting or woodworking) is to buy the best you can afford and avoid the bargain basement stuff. Yes, perfect tools are the ideal but for getting your feet wet and seeing if it is for you, get a GOOD quality name and see how it goes. Sometimes, the best doesn't work for folks and the #2 brand does. I have the cheap staff sights on one of my Rolling Blocks and it is there just for hunting and truth be told I would be better served with something else. I have had decent sights on my Trapdoors and been pleased with the results even though it meant inletting a base behind the tang.

KW, I understand your summation about the high cost of doing it right. I had a reloading setup strictly for competition and never understood going cheap for reloading. Bought the best I could afford and made it work for me.

[EDG]

One thing that you "can't afford" types always gloss right past is the cost of the shooting itself. I'm going to say it's a reasonable expectation that if someone can't come up with 2K$ to get started with the equipment, they're also going to have a devil of a time coming up with the money to feed the thing. When you're shooting cartridges that use 1 lb of lead for every 15 or so rounds, and a pound of powder for every 100 rounds, it's not cheap. Just to shoot at Alliance this past sunday my wife and I needed 42 rounds each just for score. It's also pretty good advice to take at least an equal or greater number of rounds for practice and sight settings. When my boys meet me for the Quigley I'm generally carrying somehwere around 5-600 rounds of match quality ammo, just to get the 3 of us thru the practice days and the match.
Then of course there's the entry fee , travel,food and lodging.....
Shooting bpcr competitively isn't cheap.

Don,
I am not one of those "can't afford" types except for the time to do all of the driving.
I do find that the common thread for many that participate is to equate BPCR only with the competitive sport while I associate it with the rifles. Only those with a particular fantasy participate. The competitive sport is so narrow and rigid that for the most part you will do without me. The rest of us shoot the rifles purely for the fun.
Just so I am clear. I think you will find that many folks will balk at $2K just to get started with anything. I shot skeet for years and know that many people balk at it's cost. But start up for skeet is the only the mere cost of a used shotgun. If the start up to the BPCR sport remains that high your sport will remain the haven of a few good old boy die hards and newcomers with be few and far between.

[Don McDowell]

EDG, different strokes for different folks I suppose. But there's a slow but steady trickle of new folks at just about everyshoot I have attended. The Quigley has doubled in the last few years. Kenny's Creedmoor this past May had 3 brand new to the game with brand new rifles that I'm aware of and the list can go on.
You don't want to shoot competitive, that's fine, but there's 632 shooters that gather every year from 38 states and 4 soveirgn countries that enjoy there rifles and the hunt of a competitive shoot.
Heck I even know of one family that is fully outfitted with Shilohs (not the plain jane ones either) equipped with MVA sights and the ONLY time they fire those rifles is at the Quigley.
I even enjoy my rifles in other venues beside bpcr competiton. You can try and judge which one I like the most, but chances are you won't get the answer right because I don't even know which I prefer the most.

[saz]

Don,
Is that a stroller you are using for your cart?

[Don McDowell]

hehe no it's a Rugged Gear gun cart. They've got a 4 gun model out now that looks like it'ld be a lot better than these old 2 guns.
Kenny has a gun cart that I don't recall the brand of, but it's built from aluminum, stout as a brick and looks to be a steady and solid as a brick outhouse.
Just a couple more examples of the equimpment race us nasty types that enjoy competition shooting spend our dollars on.....

[martinibelgian]

Sights? Pretty important indeed, and I'd have to say that here, there are quite a few shooters that had the Pedersoli soule and gave it a fair try - including a friend of mine. Out of exasperation, he decided to build his own tang sight (and also because he can), whixh he now shoots.. His comment was 'too much slop, no repeatable settings'. I'm shooting a Neumann and a Holbrook Dr. Goodwin (2 of each). I like the Neumann very much, but of course it is pretty hard to get in the US. One serious advantage though - you can customize it to your needs: I wanted a vernier scale for windage adjustment, which is what I got, at no extra cost. Now THAT is pretty good service!

[EDG]

Don
I have no doubt there are those that shoot nothing but Shilohs but I prefer the Highwall variations by a mile.
And don't kid yourself, that is a baby stroller frame.