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Thread: Which powder for reduced loads, 45/70 and 222

  1. #1
    Boolit Master joel0407's Avatar
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    Which powder for reduced loads, 45/70 and 222. Some tests added.

    I'm interested to know others thoughts and starting loads. Considering we cant get all the powders that you can in the US, here in Australia.

    I have just today purchased a Tikka T3 Stainless Lite in 222

    I already use ADI AR2207 (Hodgson H4198 Equilivant) in my 45/70 and will use for Jacketed in my new 222.

    I purchased 100 rounds of factory Remington ammo to run the barrel in then I plan to purchase a 225415 Lyman mould.

    I was going to us Unique for my reduced cast loads in both cartriges. After some reading I am now considering 2400, if I can buy it here.

    I'm all ears.

    Happy Days.
    Last edited by joel0407; 10-16-2010 at 09:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Rocky Raab's Avatar
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    I don't load for either round, so can only make a generalized reply.

    If you can't get either Accurate 5744 or IMR 4759 (NOT 4756!), then your thoughts of using a 4198 equivalent or 2400 would be viable. Unique is possibly the universal fallback powder for this use, as well.
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  3. #3
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    How about AS25BP / Trail Boss it makes for good light loads in both.

    AR2205 might work as well (we call it 4227 here).
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master joel0407's Avatar
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    How low can you load 4227 (AR2205). I only want to be around 1400 - 1500 fps with cast.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    Trail boss.

    Doug

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    Quote Originally Posted by joel0407 View Post
    How low can you load 4227 (AR2205). I only want to be around 1400 - 1500 fps with cast.
    Need some more data - what cartridge? what boolit? etc.
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master joel0407's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiljen View Post
    Need some more data - what cartridge? what boolit? etc.
    Subject is 222 and 45/70.

    222 will be 225415 lyman and 45/70 will be 350 - 405 grain booltis.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master joel0407's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 94Doug View Post
    Trail boss.

    Doug
    I've heard Trail boss is a bit too low for the 45/70. Under 950fps with a full case, uncompressed load.

  9. #9
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    Good morning Joel0407
    I do not think I would be shooting all that factory ammo just to "run the barrel in".
    That seems to me an expensive practice.
    I would first run a very tight patch down the barrel and "Feel" if there are any snags, rough or loose spots. Push slow and evenly and you will get a feel for that barrel.
    If it has any non-perfections I would smear some metal polish on the bullet noses and fire 5 of them. Clean the barrel and repeat the TIGHT patch routine. Shoot another 5 if needed and so on.
    I use hard cast boolits for my barrel "Run in". Slug the throat area ( you have to do this anyway) . Then use a hard boolit that is at least .001 over throat diameter and lube it with metal polish (I have a likeing for metal glo) ...
    When I am finished my barrels are uniform in diameter and shoot cast nicely.
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master Jack Stanley's Avatar
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    Morning Joel , I'm not sure if this will help much or not but my recent experience has been with the .223 Remington cartridge . Two of the molds I've used are the Lyman 225462 and the 225415 . I have not measured velocities as of yet but I think I am not far from the velocity range you are looking for .

    I have a can of ammo using the 225462 with gas check loaded with four point six grains of bullseye . I think it may be faster than you are looking for though . The other uses the Lyman 225415 without a gas check and three point six grains of bullseye . This one doesn't go quite as fast as some of the others including some unique loads I tried . I forgot the overall length of the loaded rounds but neither one has the base of the bullet below the neck .

    I am fooling with some 2400 and the 225415 with gas check and ten point seven grains works pretty well but it is way out from the speed you are looking for . I don't know as 2400 will burn very well at those speeds you are looking for .

    Jack

  11. #11
    Boolit Master joel0407's Avatar
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    Hey Jack. When you say it's way of the speeds I'm look at. Is is faster or slower.

    If anyone knows if Lyman's cast bullet book lists loads for 222 and 2400 can you post Max - Min loads with speeds, Pleas.

    Happy Days.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master joel0407's Avatar
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    And do you recommend Pistol or rifle primmers?

    Thanks

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by joel0407 View Post
    Subject is 222 and 45/70.

    222 will be 225415 lyman and 45/70 will be 350 - 405 grain booltis.

    in the 222 Remington - H4227 behind the 225415 is capable of producing 3150fps using a 20gr charge. At 15gr it will give closer to 2400fps.

    In the 45-70 - H4227 using a 457193 is capable of 1600fps using 35gr (Max) at 27gr it gives closer to 1300fps. (at sub-28,000 PSI)

    Both sets of #s assume a 20 inch barrel.

    Not a reduced load in the 222, but not a bad reduced in the 45-70 at 27gr.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Master joel0407's Avatar
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    Thanks wiljen.

    I'm looking for some loads with Alliant 2400. I think that going to be my first powder to try.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Jack Stanley's Avatar
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    Hi Joel , The load of ten point seven grains of 2400 is more than likely much faster than the Bullseye loads I'm using . If I had to guess I would say the 2400 load is above nineteen hundred feet per second but I haven't got the chronograph out yet to check it .

    There is an article someone sent me when I got started on this tiny bore journey and it was titled "Why grown men cry" . It has been very helpful at understanding some of how the tiny bore works . I'm sure you would find it helpful , I have it saved to my "favorite" tab and if I could figure out how to put it here in a link I would for ya . Perhaps someone more skilled in computers can get it for you , I think Beagle is the one who wrote it and did a nice job at it too .

    The Bullseye loads ...... I'm out on my own limb here . So far I've used three or four bullets styles and charge of Bullseye ranging fron three grains to almost five grains . The primers have been mostly small pistol but I did use some Remington small rifle I had and they did OK also . My most recent try has been a load of three point six Bullseye , a Winchester small pistol magnum primer and a RCBS 22-55-FN without the gas check , Alox in the groove and sized to .225" it works very well but is noticeably slow . OAL of the loaded round is 2.120" and it is working real well with an iron sight rifle from field positions at seventy yards .

    Hope that helps ya some .

    Jack

  16. #16
    Boolit Bub
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    Joel,
    Lyman,for .222 lists for cast #225415 45 grn 2400 grn load start at 11.0 to 15.8 grns max and for bullet #225462 54 grn 11.0 to 14.8grns max with rem brass and rem 7 1/2 primer.
    Hope thats what you are looking for.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master joel0407's Avatar
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    Awsome thanks Dave.

    Happy Days.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master JIMinPHX's Avatar
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    I use the 225415 in the .223, not the .222, so it's a little different, but it's pretty close. Please double check book data before loading a .222 based on my info.

    In the .223, I get good accuracy at around 2,000fps from 10 grains of 2400 or 7 grains of Unique. As I increase my charges above those levels, my groups start to open up a little. If you want to load to speeds below that, then Unique is probably actually the better powder to stay with. It's pretty predictable when you start loading way down there. It gives you very good flexibility.

    My results were using WSR primers, 13bnh boolits with gas checks & Lyman Super Moly lube. If I went to harder boolits, my accuracy got a little better, but terminal performance on game was not as good. A friend of mine uses straight linotype & water drops the boolits. He reports that his boolits shatter on impact with game.

    My 225415 mold is one of the newer ones. It has a fairly long gas check shank & the boolits weigh in pretty close to 55-grains, fully dressed with GC & lube. The older 225415 molds often drop a boolit that weighs around 45 grains. If you look up loading data on that boolit, you may see it listed as 45-grain or 55-grain. That's not necessarily a misprint. They probably just tested two different versions of the same boolit when writing up the data in the two different examples.

    I had a hard time getting good accuracy until I seated the boolit out far enough to touch the lands in the barrel upon chambering. After that, it was much smoother sailing.

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  19. #19
    Boolit Master JIMinPHX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Stanley View Post
    There is an article someone sent me when I got started on this tiny bore journey and it was titled "Why grown men cry" . It has been very helpful at understanding some of how the tiny bore works . I'm sure you would find it helpful , I have it saved to my "favorite" tab and if I could figure out how to put it here in a link I would for ya . Perhaps someone more skilled in computers can get it for you , I think Beagle is the one who wrote it and did a nice job at it too .
    I think that this is the 3-part series that you are looking for. It's a very good read.

    http://www.castpics.net/memberarticl...the%20.223.htm

    http://www.castpics.net/memberarticl...0Part%20II.htm

    http://www.castpics.net/memberarticl...Part%20III.htm
    “an armed society is a polite society.”
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    "Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset."
    Publius Tacitus

  20. #20
    Boolit Master Jack Stanley's Avatar
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    That's the one Jim , it is indeed a very good read and it's helping me along with my tiny bore .... at least when I use 2400 .

    Jack

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check