Still a few hits left in the old M1903 -

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

Thanks to all.

Good evening,
Forrest

[Shiloh]

Had mine out yesterday. 200 yard range. Fired the 314299 under 21.2 gr of 4759 clone, as well as 23 gr of 4227.

Shiloh

[ELFEGO BACA]

Sounds like i need to try shooting my 03 and 03A3 beyond 200 yds. I have the saeco 301 and a good shooting 150 grain flat nose from a group buy here.
My results at 100 and 200 yds have been very satisfying.

elfego

[Shooter]

I have a '03 and a '03A3, Both bought DCM by my father. He sporterized the '03 with a Lyman sight and a Bishop stock. It has a star gauged barrel.

The '03A3 is a '43 Remington, I still remember the "whack" of the steel butt plae on a young shoulder shooting surplus AP ammo. It was new in cosmoline from DCM.

The '03A3 is dear to me, not only did I shoot it through my youth, but when I joined the Navy in 1969 we drilled with '03A3's.
I have ran many miles with a '03A3 over my head. I also learned to ease the striker down with my thumb after forgetting to squeeze the trigger after "inspection arms".

Now they are fed cast, and are my "Cold Dead Fingers" rifles. They like the 314299 very well.

[Shiloh]

There is nothing like spending time at the range with an old friend.

Had the '03 out several times since the last post. All at 200 with SR-5 targets.
tried 21.5 grains of 4759 clone powder and 23.5 of IMR 4227 under a 314299 sized at .312. Wonderful results both times.

Chargar nailed it.

Shiloh

[ELFEGO BACA]

Annie next to my Remington 1903 Springfield @ 326 yard target: the center wood 'cylinder'.

Five shots three hits using a 200 grain cast bullet from a 301 Saeco mould.

Pushed by 20.0 grains of SR4759.

[FAsmus]

ELFEGO BACA;

Annie does not appear to be human!

~ Never mind; my Ginger goes to the range with me every single time ~ loves it.

That is fine shooting - especially since your target certainly would not provide anything like a good sight-picture at 325 yards!

Our closest target is 350 yards; the offhand-only "Bucket". Next is the 395 yard "Small Diamond" and on out there in ten steps to the 834 yard 4x4.

Maybe if I get ambitious I could take a couple pictures of the silhouettes and post them here ~ we'll see ~ the weather is going to snow & junk this week.

Good evening,
Forrest

[ELFEGO BACA]

Prior to Annie i had Honey, prior to Honey i had Ginger. She spent a lot of time with my on the back of the Honda Trail 110 i had at the time.

We had our first snow of the season this am - about an inch.

[chasw]

Not bad, Fasmus. I couldn't see the bullseye at 600 yds even when I was 19. Now I use a scope for most everything, except my M1903 Springfield rifle, RA 8-42. - CW

[FAsmus]

ELFEGO BACA;

Here is a picture of Ginger at the 648 yard "Big Chicken" She is there for scale mostly.



The Chicken isn't all that hard to hit, being so big, but a decent sight picture looks a little unusual ~

Good afternoon,
Forrest

[MakeMineA10mm]

Well, my 03A1-Mark I has a bore that looks like 24" of old sewer pipe, but it's the original 1919 barrel, so I'm not changing it. I think it's going to get a good soaking and cleaning and then I'm going to start my foray into cast boolit rifle loads with that rifle.

I've been doing some research, and I think I'm going to start at 25 yards with 7.0grs to 9.0grs of W231. If the sewer pipe shoots there, I'll back off to 50 and 100.

If things continue to go well, I'll switch to 17.0grs of 4227 and 21.0grs of RL-7 and 24.0grs of 3031, to see if any of them work. If that goes, I'll try 100yds and 200yds with those.

As far as boolits go, I've got the Saeco 315, which is sort-of a tapered Loverin with a medium-length, tapered, truncated cone nose. It supposed to have a good reputation as an accurate boolit, but I noticed it didn't make anyone's list above...

Forrest, I wouldn't want to be on your bad side... Inspires me to consider "northern WY" as a retirement spot... Every Sunday, eh?

[MakeMineA10mm]

Here's a pic of the Saeco 315:

[FAsmus]

MakeMineA10mm;

Humm ~ 10mm huh? Is that something like a 40/65 WCF maybe?

Well ~ not every Sunday! Today (Sunday) for example it was snowing lightly at daybreak. It stopped during Church - going to 35 degrees and 15 knots of wind. That is too cold for my trigger finger .. after all .. it is supposed to recreation, not difficult times.

I try to shoot at temperatures above 40 degrees, bumping that to 55 if the wind gets up to 15 kts or more.

I hope your '03 cleans up and becomes satisfying to shoot over whatever distances you have available back east.

Sheridan is no longer a really well-kept secret for folks of a certain age to retire to. I like it here. And I drive for the local Senior Center for those of us who can no longer get around solo.

Good morning,
Forrest

[MakeMineA10mm]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Forrest,
I'm not shooting anywhere near as far as you are, but I've started my cast boolit shooting in my '03, thanks in no small part to your posts here. Thank you.

If you want to see my trials and tribulations (and success), the thread is at this link: http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/...89#post1067089

Cheers!

[Jack Stanley]

MakeMinea10mm ,

I haven't used 231 in my aught six yet but one of my favorite "up to forty yard" loads is a 311466 lighty lubed and sized to .311" and seven point five grains of Universal Clays . Using the battle sight it will hit right on or pretty close depending on the rifle . The charge can be adjusted up or down to put the slugs right on , accuracy is limited by my old eyes but groups are still pretty good . Perhaps 231 will work similar , I'd be glad to hear how it works for you .


Jack

[MakeMineA10mm]

MakeMinea10mm ,

I haven't used 231 in my aught six yet but one of my favorite "up to forty yard" loads is a 311466 lighty lubed and sized to .311" and seven point five grains of Universal Clays . Using the battle sight it will hit right on or pretty close depending on the rifle . The charge can be adjusted up or down to put the slugs right on , accuracy is limited by my old eyes but groups are still pretty good . Perhaps 231 will work similar , I'd be glad to hear how it works for you .


Jack

Hi Jack! 7.5grs worked very well as far as accuracy. At 25 yards I got pretty nice groups of around 1", but there were some unexplained fliers and a little verticle stringing. The interesting thing to me is that both groups had a couple boolits touching, and if ignoring the fliers, they'd be 1/2" or 5/8" groups! Now for me, they shot very low, but also very far to the left. I can change the windage, but I think the low-hitting at the battle sight setting is indicative of the low velocity these must be chugging along at. (I didn't take the time to set up the chrono the other day either, sorry.)

Trouble is, this is my FIRST ever attempt at shooting cast boolits in the rifle, so I did some loading errors, like -- too much lube, too deeply seated, and didn't weight-sort them (last one because I was in a hurry). I've since weight-sorted them and gave them another visual inspection. My culls (.2-.9grs too light and with minor visual defects) are going to be loaded with the W231 loads to test next time the weather is nice.

I also shot 9.0grs and that group hit higher on the target, but still a couple inches below the battle-sight setting. The group opened up (ignoring the flier) to about 1.25 inches. After checking the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, I think I'm going to move up to 11.0grs and 12.5grs and try those. That's about as far as I want to push these naked boolits. I'll also use a little less lube (probably the bottom three lube grooves only. I'm shooting the boolits unsized, so the base band is running about .312" with the higher bands tapering down to about .303 to .304" at the front.

Quite frankly, I was surprised at how well these shot with me knowing only what I've read here and in the Lyman handbook and never having loaded cast in the rifle before.

This group I shot using Kentucky windage after seeing how far low and to the left these were shooting:


This is my first group ever with cast boolits in a rifle (well, unless you count the 30 Carbine). Aimpoint was the bottom edge of the bullseye, and the group ended up in the far bottom left corner where the previous shooter had signed his target (22 pistol competition back in the 60s...):

Note there is two sets of two boolits touching, and all four of them are very nicely snugged up together! I did NOT call that flier, so it wasn't a bad shot. I'm thinking either too much lube, or a boolit that was grossly heavy or light.

Here's the 9.0grs W231 group:

Without using sorted boolits and seating the boolits out of the case properly, I'm not making any judgements on this load from this one group yet. I plan on re-shooting it, and seeing how it does with weight-sorted and properly lubed boolits. You can tell by seeing the edge of the bullseye that this group came up considerably in elevation from the 7.5gr load. This load did not recoil badly, but it was heavier than the 7.5gr load, which felt like shooting a 22 training rifle Springfield. This 9.0gr load actually gave a touch of recoil, maybe like shooting a 357 magnum lever-gun with 38s in it. Still nearly nothing.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

Forrest,
I'd like to hear more about your sight tool, and preferably some photos if you can possibly arrange them.

I have a couple of M1903A3's which I'm faimiliar with, but when my Dad passed on almost two years ago, I wound up with a low-numbered Springfield M1903 that I've been studying up on a bit.

Since it's in the 6xx,xxx range, I have some concerns about it possibly having a brittle receiver - however, I have no use for a rifle that I cannot shoot! So, I've loaded up a number of rounds with 15gr of IMR SR 4759 and #311413 169gr boolits, which my Dad reported very good accuracy with at 200 yards back in 1970. These boolits have unsupported noses, which do not do well at velocities over around 1700fps or so.

Have you ever tried the Wilks gas check method? Google "Wilks gas check" if you don't know what I'm talking about.

I've tried Googling the "Camp Perry M1903 tool" and have come up empty-handed. Would you be so kind as to post some photos of your Camp Perry M1903 tool?

I understand that the BZO for a stock M1903 is 547 yards, which is pretty crazy by modern standards. I would appreciate seeing some elevation data that you have used on your M1903.

Best regards

[Jack Stanley]

MakeMineA10mm , Unless your rear sight is nailed down pretty tight some of those "fliers" might be because of wiggle in the sight . The first and second picture you show are pretty typical of what my 1903 will do at thirty-five yards . But then , my rear sight has some wiggle in it that might tighten things up some . My front sight is an "A" blade if I remember right , if yours is marked different I would expect it to give a different point of impact .

When I was working with these loads I found the elevation could be controlled by the amount of powder I put in the case . I believe the way it it worked ( Up to a point ) was with a given bullet weight the more powder used the lower the impact would be . It's been a long time since I worked up that load so I may have it reversed and I'm sure if I used a loading book load it would throw the whole idea out the window .

What was important to me was that it hit the piont of aim with the battle sights . After I got that down right , then I adjusted accuracy with more or less lube , changing the sizer die , segregating cases to that rifle alone , and overall cartridge length . When the groups including fliers started staying inside the ten ring of a fifty foot pistol target at twenty-seven yards I figured the rest was because of my sloppy sights and old eyes . My rifle is a one point four million with a new old stock barrel and a brand new stock fitted to the metal .

Here's a suggestion and it won't cost you a nickle . Pick the powder you think gave you the best accuracy then move the charge weight up or down and see what it does for your point of impact . You won't have to move it much to get an idea if the group goes up or down . If you can get that where it hits right on at the distance you want , I think you can adjust other things to make the accuracy better . Now if I could just tighten up my rear sight and fix these old eyes..................

Jack

[MakeMineA10mm]

HI Sierra Whiskey. I'll leave most of your answers to Forrest, but with your low-numbered Springfield, I have some info. First of all, I think you got one too many "X" in there. The "low-numbered" single-heat-treat receivers at Springfield Armory are under 800,000. Don't believe the numbers even hit 6 million on the Springfield?

There is a very good article on the net about this issue. It basically statistically analyzes data from Hatcher's book and determines that the chance of a low-numbered Springfield "blowing up" is about the same as dying in an airline crash or getting hit by lightning. He also made a good point that with all the use these low-numbered '03s have gotten through two world wars, that if it hasn't blown up by now, it probably never will. Last, he also showed through Hatcher's data that only one man was injured "seriously" and the other 40 were uninjured to minor injuries, so I don't thing they "blow up" as much as "become unusable" by cracking of the receiver...

Lastly, I would say if you're restricting yourself to mild to medium cast boolit loads, there's virtually no risk at all. If it were mine, I'd shoot it!

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

MakeMineA10mm,
Yep, one too many x's; I was tired when I was posting. I edited one "x" out.

I don't know the history on this rifle; it's one that my Dad had in his collection for a number of years. I haven't slugged the barrel yet. The rifle itself appears to be in quite good condition, and the bore is bright.