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Thread: CB with 458 SOCOM?

  1. #41
    Boolit Buddy

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    Strange I missed this thread up until now.

    I have been loading gas checked lead bullets in my .458 SOCOM for a while now. Seems to work OK for me to plink with. I had some cast bullets already for loading in my .460 Weatherby so I tried them. I recently go a LBT "M" style bullet to try in the SOCOM. It is designed for the 45-70 but it has a decent profile for a 400 gr. bullet and shoudl work good.

    Something to look at below from L to R:

    .460 WBY loaded with a 500 gr. RNGC Lee mould
    Old Ideal 390gr. RNGC bullet and loaded round
    Lee 500 gr. RNGC bullet and loaded round
    Sierra 300 gr. JHP and loaded round
    Hornady 500 gr. JSP and loaded round
    .460 WBy loaded with 500 gr. JSP
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #42
    Boolit Buddy TonyM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intel6 View Post
    Strange I missed this thread up until now.

    I have been loading gas checked lead bullets in my .458 SOCOM for a while now. Seems to work OK for me to plink with. I had some cast bullets already for loading in my .460 Weatherby so I tried them. I recently go a LBT "M" style bullet to try in the SOCOM. It is designed for the 45-70 but it has a decent profile for a 400 gr. bullet and shoudl work good.

    Something to look at below from L to R:

    .460 WBY loaded with a 500 gr. RNGC Lee mould
    Old Ideal 390gr. RNGC bullet and loaded round
    Lee 500 gr. RNGC bullet and loaded round
    Sierra 300 gr. JHP and loaded round
    Hornady 500 gr. JSP and loaded round
    .460 WBy loaded with 500 gr. JSP
    What kind of accuracy are you getting with the cast rounds... and at what velocities...

  3. #43
    Boolit Master
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    Went to the range today to try out some loads with the Socom. Used the 460420 PB GB and 460420 GC GB mould to see if there is any difference. Basically, same boolit but one is PB and one is GC. Wondered about the idea that the gas escaping out the gas port would cut the base of a plain base boolit. Sounds good, but wondered about the gas traveling down the barrel would have to make a 90 degree turn and maybe the boolit would be past the gas port before damage could occur.

    The two groups in the upper center are the gc boolits.
    In the lower left , the PB boolit, there were three shots but only one hit the target, second cut the first shot a bit lower and third was about 2" out at 7 o'clock. Raised sights up and fired next three rounds into a group a little less than 2". Raised sights again to fire two more rounds I found in the bottom of the box I took to the range. Last two were almost touching. When boolit is seated, base is about 3/16" below neck of the case. Velocity was about 1650fps for both.

  4. #44
    Boolit Buddy Old Coot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike in co View Post
    can you firnish documentation ???

    ( i ant saying it aint..i would like to see some facts. )

    thanks
    mike in co
    Mike; I believe that I read it in National Rifleman.

  5. #45
    Boolit Buddy TonyM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockrat View Post
    Went to the range today to try out some loads with the Socom. Used the 460420 PB GB and 460420 GC GB mould to see if there is any difference. Basically, same boolit but one is PB and one is GC. Wondered about the idea that the gas escaping out the gas port would cut the base of a plain base boolit. Sounds good, but wondered about the gas traveling down the barrel would have to make a 90 degree turn and maybe the boolit would be past the gas port before damage could occur.

    The two groups in the upper center are the gc boolits.
    In the lower left , the PB boolit, there were three shots but only one hit the target, second cut the first shot a bit lower and third was about 2" out at 7 o'clock. Raised sights up and fired next three rounds into a group a little less than 2". Raised sights again to fire two more rounds I found in the bottom of the box I took to the range. Last two were almost touching. When boolit is seated, base is about 3/16" below neck of the case. Velocity was about 1650fps for both.
    What powder are you using?

    I'm going to go test out my new rounds I got from Mike today or tomrrow and see what kind of luck I have.... still waiting on the chrono though, so I won't have exact velocity info... but I'm thinking it should be around the 1500-1700 range.... Its hard to say since I'm going off of J load data...

  6. #46
    Boolit Master
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    I am using Data 68. IIRC, a tad slower than AA1680. CCI 200 primers
    Will do more testing. Having a little problem with my Hornady dies. The 460420 PB, if it works out, should be plenty for any game around here and a good plinking load.

  7. #47
    Boolit Buddy TonyM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockrat View Post
    I am using Data 68. IIRC, a tad slower than AA1680. CCI 200 primers
    Will do more testing. Having a little problem with my Hornady dies. The 460420 PB, if it works out, should be plenty for any game around here and a good plinking load.
    Are you're loads compressing? at 36-37 grains of lil gun or 4198, I'm compressing. What overall length are you keeping the cartridge? From what I've read... keeping it as close to 2" is ideal... (One of my diagrams actually says 2.015, but I go as far as 2.1 and haven't seemed to have any cycling or feeding problems.

    I had really good luck today with the 410s that Mike sent me with 27gr of lil gun. Gas checks made a big difference...lol Wish that chrono would hurry up and get here, I'd really like to know where these are at. They've got to be around 1600FPS I'm thinking.

    I'm going to load some more tomorrow, with 28gr of lil gun, and see if they still hold their accuracy.. if they do... I may go 28.5. As long as I can keep it around 3" out there at 1700-1800fps... I'll be happy...

  8. #48
    Boolit Buddy TonyM's Avatar
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    Load Data!!

    OK... FINALLY I got some load data... and I'm right about where I thought I was going to be.

    First of all...THESE PB bullets over 1200FPS are garbage. The ones I were shooting were fairly hard.. and even at 1300FPS not only did they go EVERYWHERE (Not one on paper at 100yrds), but they leaded the $hit out of my barrel.

    Alright... on to the numbers game.

    Each are averages from a single string of 20 rnds (Two ten round strings actually). All rounds were shot using CCI 350 Large Pistol primers, and an OAL of 2.015" to 2.02"



    Group 1
    .410gr Cast GC (Lyman #2 BH approx 15) .458 Diameter
    36gr H4198
    FPS: 1528
    ES: 74
    SD: 20
    MOA: 4"ish

    Group 2
    .410gr Cast GC (Lyman #2 BH approx 15) .459 Diameter
    36gr H4198
    FPS: 1565
    ES: 94
    SD: 26
    MOA: 3"-4"ish

    Group 3
    .410gr Cast GC (Lyman #2 BH approx 15) .458 Diameter
    27gr Lil Gun
    FPS: 1570
    ES:45
    SD: 12
    MOA: 1.5"-2"ish

    Group 4
    .400gr Barnes JFN "Bone Busters" .458 Diameter (Slightly compressed)
    38gr H4198
    FPS: 1621
    ES: 75
    SD: 21
    MOA: 1"-2"ish (Was about an inch higher on paper than the cast rounds)

    At this point... I think the H4198 can be ruled out as my "Perfect" powder. At this point it is Lil Gun, but I am going to pick up some Unique tomoarrow, and see how that does.

    Another thing, not a big difference between 458 and 459 (Well accept 459 varried more in speed). I am going to try .460s and see if there is a noticeable difference.

    The 4th group was the most accurate of the run, and the 3rd being the most consistant... and almost just as accurate.

    There was no noticeable leading, until I shot the PB boolits.... and it was bad. I almost didn't finish firing them, but I needed the brass back...lol

    So far it seems Lil Gun with the GC cast rounds in the 400gr weight are the best so far...

    I will keep this thread updated with data as I go. I plan on turning up the lil gun charge a bit next round... and trying the Unique... I am still playing in the 400gr boolit weight though (Because that it was I intend on hunting with). I will go to a slightly lighter round 380's I think? with a slightly less hard BH (Around 12-13 or so).

  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    No compressing that I can detect. Not a whole lot of room for any more powder either.

  10. #50
    Boolit Buddy TonyM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockrat View Post
    No compressing that I can detect. Not a whole lot of room for any more powder either.
    Yeah... the cases are pretty short. What is your OAL when loaded?

  11. #51
    Boolit Master
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    2.030" with the PB 460-420GB boolit.

  12. #52
    Boolit Buddy TonyM's Avatar
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    I found a pretty nice sweet spot load wise for this thing...

    29gr lil gun with the 420gr .458 GC FN... (Two 10 shot strings)

    1650fps
    2478 KE
    ES-25
    SD-8
    1-1.5" MOA

    I really like this load. It is the most accurate so far. 30gr wound up beinga bit much I think... as my accuracy started to suffer (3-4" MOA) but I was also reaching 1700fps...

    I'm loading 50 more of them and putting them in the drawer... keepers for sure...

  13. #53
    Boolit Buddy Capn Jack's Avatar
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    Exclamation Hot Load !!!

    I tried 5 of the 420gr. GC FN bullets, 29GR. lil'Gun, sized .459, Rem. Large Pistol primer, O.A.L. 2.18, this morning in my rifle. RRA upper on a DPMS lower.

    At 100yds the bullets were off of an 8 1/2 x 11" target, the primers were flattened and the brass had a bolt swipe you could cut youself on.

    They may work for Tony, but they sure are dangerous in my rifle.

  14. #54
    Boolit Buddy TonyM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capn Jack View Post
    I tried 5 of the 420gr. GC bullets, 29GR. lil'Gun, sized .459, Rem. Large Pistol primer, O.A.L. 2.18, this morning in my rifle. RRA upper on a DPMS lower.

    At 100yds the bullets were off of an 8 1/2 x 11" target, the primers were flattened and the brass had a bolt swipe you could cut youself on.

    They may work for Tony, but they sure are dangerous in my rifle.
    I probably would have worked up to that load before going straight to it. That is the threshhold for accuracy in my rifle... but even at 30gr I didn't have flat primers or bolt cut brass... I'm using CCI 350 primers as well...

    Obviously, all rifles are different, but maybe try a starting load of about 25gr.. and work your way up? Of ALL of the powders I've tried with this weapon (About 5 so far), lil gun has BY FAR worked the best. Even Marty is using Lil Gun with his load development for Jwords...

    With cast 405s (.460) and 31gr I wasn't even getting primer flattening or bolt cutting... strange...

  15. #55
    Boolit Buddy Capn Jack's Avatar
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    Exclamation RE: Hot Load

    Tony,

    You're right. This is the first load I've "jumped into" with out working my way up.
    I figured seeing as how we were both using RRA uppers....What could go wrong...

    Now I know. I'll back off and load some at 25GR. I also want to try leaving the O.A.L a little longer so that the GC is up in the case neck.

    May this serve as a warning to others....



    Jack

  16. #56
    Boolit Buddy TonyM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capn Jack View Post
    Tony,

    You're right. This is the first load I've "jumped into" with out working my way up.
    I figured seeing as how we were both using RRA uppers....What could go wrong...

    Now I know. I'll back off and load some at 25GR. I also want to try leaving the O.A.L a little longer so that the GC is up in the case neck.

    May this serve as a warning to others....



    Jack
    How long can you go with it still fitting into the the Magazine? My mil spec mags don't look like they could take much more over 2.2 and still feed up reliably. With the pmag, I can go that long comfortably though...

    I'll have to look this next time around and see how far passed the neck the GC is... I would also like to find out what the OAL is going to be with the gas check still in the neck...

  17. #57
    Boolit Buddy TonyM's Avatar
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    Another thing... with you shooting the 459s... I bet that created more pressure in the barrel (Sealing the gasses better than the .458s that I were shooting was), and that would prob create some of that rearward primer flatteneing/brass cutting... just a thought (Although again, I didn't notice much difference with the 459s I shot... but I didn't shoot them using the 29gr of lil gun... I only shot them with the 4198)

  18. #58
    Boolit Buddy Capn Jack's Avatar
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    Red face O.a.l

    Tony,

    I have windowed a couple of cases (I screwed up) and I use them to check lengths....

    With the GC just started into the neck and most of it in the shoulder, the O.A.L. is, 2.21 on my trusty Harbor Freight Caliper. Enough clearance for most magazines.

    The Ogive on that big bullet is the rub. If I extend the bullet way out and then press it in to one of Marty's chamber gauges, the bullet is pressed back into the case to an O.A.L. of 2.074 and the GC is back down into the case again.

    Oh well, seemed like a good idea.

    Jack

  19. #59
    Boolit Buddy TonyM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capn Jack View Post
    Tony,

    I have windowed a couple of cases (I screwed up) and I use them to check lengths....

    With the GC just started into the neck and most of it in the shoulder, the O.A.L. is, 2.21 on my trusty Harbor Freight Caliper. Enough clearance for most magazines.

    The Ogive on that big bullet is the rub. If I extend the bullet way out and then press it in to one of Marty's chamber gauges, the bullet is pressed back into the case to an O.A.L. of 2.074 and the GC is back down into the case again.

    Oh well, seemed like a good idea.

    Jack
    2.074? Thats strange... some of the loads I've been reading on far exceed that OAL...?

    If it's 2.21ish... I'll tether a couple and see what the deal is . We need a WILDCAT smilie BTW...lol ... I like the idea of having the GC actually in the neck (Although NONE of the rounds I've shot thus far has this been the case... and I've had relatively good success....). Every little bit helps though...

  20. #60
    Boolit Buddy Capn Jack's Avatar
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    Talking Re: O.a.l.

    "2.074? Thats strange... some of the loads I've been reading on far exceed that OAL...?"

    I thought it was too, especially when you see a picture of one of those 500GR hanging out of the case what looks like 3/4 of an inch.

    If you're going to try it, I found a way to open the bolt that's easier on charging handles.

    Place the rifle muzzel down against the edge of your shooting bench, with the charging handle hooked over the top of the bench and slap the end of the butt stock.

    Stay Safe, Jack

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check