300 gr Cast Bullets Needed

[montana_charlie]

As far a slugging the barrel and chamber area (Henry tapered rifling) I was planning on using Veral Smith at LBT, but his instructions read like Chinese to me, and he charges for every darn thing. Want a sprue plate with that mould? 20 bucks. How bout a couple screws to hook up/adjust that sprue plate? OK, another 75 cents.

Normally, you would do your chamber casting and bore slugging BEFORE beginning your contact with Veral, or any other source of bullet moulds.

Those actions tell you what size bullet you are looking for.

CM

[Marc Adamchek]

OK - I just read two more great posts and I will reply to both now:

1. Elk Hunter - Thanks again for your helpful knowledge. As an aside, I was planning on hard cast (linotype) solely on Sherman Bell's word in a DGJ arfticle on the 450 BPE. Interesting note on the jacketed bullet/worn barrel syndrome. I hope this isn't the case, but I guess the proof will be in the pudding, as they say. I had planned on testing a variety of .45 cast bullet weights and sizes, although not quite as comprehensive as you mention. But IF I can get 'em, I sure will! By the way, where do you get your "Laser Cast" bullets, or is that some casting jargon I haven't learned yet? The original load you mention was read by me about an hour after I read it in an old Ross Seyfried DGJ article, so for a brief moment I could nod my head knowledgeably and say"yes, that's right"!

2. Bob, greetings from the western end of the republic! Sure can put a damper on our fun, can't they? This latest bit with the "NO shipping lead that can be made into a dangerous cartridge" is by far the wackiest I've run into yet. I get the feeling if I go begging some garage for wheel weights I'll be followed home by a couple cops! Thanks a REAL lot for the links. The link for the cast bullet workshop is right out of my daydreams. I swear, I fouond myself at the beginning of the summer when I was purchasing casting equipment wishing that just such a thing would exist, and here you go and hand it to me - outstanding! They can definitely count me in.

Many Thanks to one and all - Marc

[GabbyM]

Boston, MA site of our first Tea Party. How times have changed.

You'd think with the unclean masses not able to receive boolits through mail your businesses selling reloading supplies would stock boolits on the shelf or at least receive mail order for you.

[JIMinPHX]

Well, first off, you need to move to NH, or at least get a PO box up there. I used to have an FFL location in the city of Boston, & I've got to tell you, It was no walk in the park to deal with the state & city officials there. The feds were fine back then, it was just the local bureaucrats that were an impossible bunch of crooks to deal with.

That aside, if you give us a little more information about what you want to use the rile for & the type of performance you are looking for, it will probably help us to help you.

I didn't know much about that particular rifle, so I did a quick bit of Googling. I found some references to Damascus steel barrels. If you have that type of barrel, then IMR 4198, or any other modern smokeless powder should not be used at all. Damascus barrels are only designed to handle the pressures generated by old fashioned Black Powder or it's modern substitutes. Most of the other references that I found to those guns said that they were made in the late 1800s. That would also make me think Black powder. If BPE stands for Black Powder Express, than that would cinch it for me & I'd start looking at the proof marks on the gun before bringing a single grain of modern smokeless powder anywhere near it.

If I were you, I would find out what type of barrel you have, check for proof marks, measure the groove diameter of the barrels & then decide how to proceed. It appears that you have a real desirable old collectible in your hands there. I'd proceed with caution of I were you.

Welcome to the board by the way.

[elk hunter]

Marc,

First off, "Laser Cast" is a brand name. They're made in Baker City, Oregon and you can locate them on the internet.

http://laser-cast.com/

I see a post about Damascus barrels. Your rifle was probably shot with as many or more "nitro for black" loads as it was with black powder. The British sportsman that owned a BPE was just as interested in the new smokeless powders as we are, so nitro for black loads were developed just for those rifles by Kynoch and other companys. With 4198 the correct load would be 40%, by weight, of the original black powder load, which in your case was 120 grains, which translates to 48 grains which, if I remember your first post correctly, is what Mr. Owens was using in your rifle.

If your rifle does have Damascus barrels and you decide you don't wish to shoot it, send it along to me I'll do the right thing and give it decent burial along side my twenty or so other Damascus barreled guns. But for heavens sake don't tell Sherman Bell or Ross Seyfried, they'll be wanting to dispose of it.

Kidding aside, unless there is some flaw in the barrels, and it should have shown up long before now, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it with the proper loads.


You should get your hands on Graeme Wrights book "Shooting the British Double Rifle. Loads of good information. Another thought is to log on to the "Nitro Express" forum and the "Accurate Reloading" forum and see if there is anyone in your area that shoots BPE rifles. It's nice to have a knowledgeable friend when you first get in to this type of fun.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/

http://nitroexpress.com/

Enjoy your rifle, it's a wonderful piece of history to shoot and hunt with.

[DIRT Farmer]

Marc, I am intersted in the mould you you had made for the 72 Kodiac. Mine is an experience with a right smart of ffg and RB but I have thought a conical would be useful if I ever get to do the dream hunt.

[Marc Adamchek]

Jim, with all due respect, I have been shooting nitro loads through damascus barrels for close to 9 years. All were shotguns, it's true, but all were proofed in either Birmingham or London, with all information on the water table and barrel flats.

I only shoot 12 bore shotguns, and the usual nitro load stamped by the proof house is for 2 1/2 cartridges. The proper pressure of the load is also stamped there. Although, my Westley Richards, made in 1890, was reproofed in the eighties, I suspect because the chambers were bored out to 2 3/4 before being shipped to the states, since that's a common length of 12 gaue cartridges here. That was proofed for 2 3/4 cartridges.

I only use 2 1/2 12 gauge low pressure (below or around 7,000) 1 ounce loads in ALL my old shotguns, damascus or fluid steel barrels. In fact, my usual woods gun is a 12 bore W J Jeffery 12 made in 1924 with fluid steel barrels. Before I bought tghat gun years ago I still made sure it had been proofed to be safe. Again, fluid steel barrels shot with 2 1/2 low pressure loads.

There's a whole sequence of articles by Sherman Bell in the DGJ going back at ledast 15 years called "Finding Out for Myself" in which he tests huge pressure proof loads in all sorfts of damascus and fluid steel barrels in all kinds of condition (some "wallhangers") from a long time ago. I think to date only one set of barrels blew open, and they were fulid steel. As I remember, a couple may have been shot "off face" but I can't recall the type of barrel).

Amyway, his reports to date have shown how strong damascus steel was/is. When fluid steel first came into production, many makers marketed them "as strong as damascus steel".

Anyway, I didn't mean to ramble on so much. The literature is out there for anyone to investigate. Another champion of damascus steel was the late, great Oscar Gaddy. A very interesting metallurigist with a long history of study devoted to different steels.

But yes, ultimatgely I would LOVE to find an all black powder load for my Henry - perhaps I will. But the "nitro for black" l;oads I intend to use haave all been proven to be safe. Remebertoo that our black powder is much different from the black powder of yore.

Well, I've rambled so much that I've used up available time and hae to leave to get some work done. I'll pick up the thread later on to answer and thank other contributors to this thread.

Many Thanks, as always - Marc

[Marc Adamchek]

DIRT Farmer - go to the NEI website. The mould is number 732. It's 835 grs For some reason the guy makinig it had some trouble and it took about 8 to 10 weeks before I got it. All NEI moulds need RCBS handles (in case you didn't know). - Marc